Advertisers and ad agencies fishing for free pictures in Flickr

I have recently received a message from MRM asking for my permission to use one of the pictures that I have in my Flickr sets. I´m fine with NGO´s asking for permission to run photos for their purposes since they obviously have no budget for royalties, but I think this trend of agencies and advertisers fishing on pods like Flickr, luring amateur ~~- or pro -~~ photographers with photo credits is concerning, and I also think we should refuse to play that game. Am I being too paranoid about this? Any comments?

I´m pasting below the full emails (skipping the personal details) and my reply in case anyone is interested in the full case (excuse my English)

Thanks,

Miguel Pereira
miguel.pereira@miguelpereira.es
www.miguelpereira.es

On 11 Dec ‘06, 8.54pm CET XXX said:

My name is XXX XXX. I work for Mastercard’s advertising agency, MRM Worldwide. We are working on Priceless.com, which is a user submitted website. Our guests submit whats called “Priceless Picks”. Picks can be anything from their favorite restaurant, a favorite travel location, a unique shop, etc…

You can look at the current picks at www.priceless.com

We are currently working on a Priceless Pick about Lisbon. We would love to use your photo(s). We wanted to ask permission to use the the following photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miguelpereira/99425720/

We do give photo credit and would be willing to list your flickr name or full name.

Can you please email me back as soon as possible at rudine.james@mccann.com and let me know if you are interested.

Thank you,

XXX
MRM Worldwide
646-XXX-XXXX
XXX.XXX@mccann.com

On 11 Dec ‘06, 8.54pm CET miguel.pereira said:

Dear XXX,

Thank your very much for your message and for our interest in my pictures.

I understand your goals and the nature of your project but I am dissapointed that and reputed agency like MRM and a large client like MasterCard are trying to obtain free pictures leveraging your brand names to lure photographers in exchange for a credit line. I totally sympathize with your work and what you´re trying to achieve; I´m sure the project doesn´t exactly have a huge internal budget, and you´re probably think that working for a large agancy is working against you in this case. But the truth is that both MRM and MasterCard are powerful agent in the advertising industry and I think they shoudl act accordingly for the good and for the bad. I simply think it´s not right to fish for pictures asking for non-paid permissions to skip royalties, even if it´s for a small-scale Internet project.

I would be happy to see my pictures in this project but I just think it´s wrong for us photographer to give away our rights and our intellectual property for free, because this would show little value for our own work. If the project is small then please offer royalties accordingly; if you don´t have large budgets, I would be willing to give more pictures for the price of one. I´m sure there soliutions which are more than simply giving away our work in exchange for a photo credit.

I constantly receive requests like this from NGO´s and non-profit organizations through Flickr and I always give my permission to use pictures (if I have the model release when there is a model involved), but it´s the first time I get a request like this from a company like MRM, and quite honestly, I´m dissapointed.

That said, I really thank you for your attention to my pictures, and for the kind tone of your message. I hope I have not been too blunt in my answer, and I really mean that this is not personal, it´s simply that I know how corporations work, and I just feel it´s wrong to go with that flow when it comes to our work. Unfortunately, I´m sure others will give you wht you´re looking for.

Let me know if you´re interested in my pictures on a royalty-per-use basis, even if the amount is very low. Otherwise, I still wish you good luck with your project.

Sincerely,

Miguel Pereira
miguel.pereira@miguelpereira.es
Madrid, Spain
www.miguelpereira.es

by Miguel Pereira at Mon Dec 11 23:07:32 UTC 2006 (ed. Mar 12 2008) Madrid, Spain | Bookmark this | Digg this |

I think over the next couple of years photographers can simply forget to try to make money with stock. You can get royalty free images for 1 Euro or probably for free on FlickR. If you are looking for a recent travel image the latter might be the best option. Pictures at stock agencies are often dated. On FlickR you have tons of hobby photographers who post their holiday photos right after they come home. A credit is something you can be proud of, you can show your friends. If you have other means of income, the money doesn’t really matter. What can you do against it? You can write letters an appeal to their moral, but it won’t help much. Don’t get me wrong, I think you should do that, but there are thousands of other people who don’t think like we do.
Only thing against that is quality.

by Daniel Etter | 11 Dec 2006 23:12 | Cologne, Germany |

Hi Miguel, great answer, even the corporate world is defenitily going crazy.it’s very important to do what you did. let me know if they answered and if they offered you a price. Cheers

by Miguel Ribeiro Fernandes | 11 Dec 2006 23:12 | Lisboa, Portugal |

Thank you, Miguel. And yes, I agree with you, Daniel. You´re absolutely right. That´s the trend, and that´s those are the forces of the market. It´s “change or die”, as usual. Or rather, “be better than ever or die”.

by Miguel Pereira | 11 Dec 2006 23:12 | Madrid, Spain |

I couldn’t agree more, when was the last time Mastercard gave anything away for free?

by John Armstrong-Millar | 12 Dec 2006 10:12 | Pau, France |

Great reply to them, Miguel. On an aside, I will add that lots of NGOs do indeed have budgets to license photography, just as they include all other operating and fundraising expenses in their budget. Just because they are non-profit entities does not mean they don’t spend and receive money and pay bills like other businesses. I know there are tiny ones operating on only a few bucks (and I have donated usage to some), but the larger, more established ones realize the power good photography has in their campaigns and are able to pay for it.

by Allen Sullivan | 12 Dec 2006 12:12 (ed. Dec 12 2006) | Atlanta, Georgia, United States |

Yes, I agree with you, Allen. I didn´t mean that all NGO lack the budget, but even if they do have certain budgets, I don´t mind giving them some images for free, because it´s my own way to collaborate with them. But you´re aboslutely right.

by Miguel Pereira | 13 Dec 2006 19:12 | Madrid, Spain |

Well made Miguel! sad, but it looks like that we are going the way Daniel explains….

best Stefan

by Stefan Rohner | 13 Dec 2006 21:12 | Ibiza, Spain |

I was approached by MRM for their priceless campaign. I gave them my usage price, and they agreed without any discussion. Later when the picture ran, I saw that they were using another one of my photos, so I contacted the MRM rep and told them they were using a second photo improperly. She told me to send over the usage fee, which I did, and they paid that too.

I think Miguel’s response is good, however, the person he’s dealing with doesn’t really care about the ethics of photography—they’re just a low level image buyer. The most expedient way to deal with this is to just tell them what the usage rate will be because they do have a budget for the campaign. I might be oversimplifying the situation, but for an image buyer, the choice is binary. “Do I like the photo? If yes, do I have the budget for the photo?” “Photographer rights” is an esoteric concept that only photographers care about. I’m not discounting the value of education, but in this situation, you should try to lower the friction for the sale.

by Allen Murabayashi | 14 Dec 2006 15:12 | New York, United States |

Regarding the comment in the original post “I´m fine with NGO´s asking for permission to run photos for their purposes since they obviously have no budget for royalties”, I think it is worth pointing out a very important distinction. NGO’s choose not to put their money into photography. It is a decision on their behalf that they make. And while you as a photography may be okay with them asking for permission to use images, as a photographer you should never be okay with just licensing images for free to them. Why as a photographer should you give something away just because the other person isn’t prepared to pay?

As for Allen’s response – I totally agree. Less thinking about it and a more business like approach to the actual transaction is what is needed. That is, you want to use the image, then this is the cost. If you don’t want to pay, then you don’t get to use the image. I will never understand why photographers are so prepared to give images away. I mean, when was the last time you phoned a company and said you didn’t have a budget to pay for a product and then actually received what you were asking for, for nothing? Usage of images is no different. In my books, no money = no image usage. Period. T. www.thomaspickard.com

by Thomas Pickard | 14 Dec 2006 22:12 (ed. Dec 14 2006) | Sydney, Australia |

Hi all

I think that what Daniel pointed out is just in here: companies getting amateur photographers work, sometimes just for credits (could be enough for a non profesional), sometimes paying (the same as to a proff?).

An example on journalism is the “Yahoo News!” proyect called “You Witness News” , in which Reuters is also adding up (look at the
flickr group for youwitnessnews ). In another post they are pointing out not only Daniel’s concern on quality, but also about trust. What are the concerns on the so called “age of citizen journalism”?

I’ve read lots of things on the great and wonderful democratization of whatever (journalism for example) from the use of technologies, but what about professional work? Is or will be something changing when ad companies or journals start more and more getting free or cheap photos from non-profs?

by gabriela ortizmichel | 15 Dec 2006 00:12 | guadalajara, Mexico |

I also work on the production side of things for advertising shoots over here in Japan can assure you that “limited budget” in advertising means absolutely nothing. Like Allen says, send them your usage rate and you will soon find a check in the mail.

by Nathan Shanahan | 15 Dec 2006 02:12 | Perth, Australia |

Well Miguel, I live and work in the “third world”...and I am used to seeing and once in a while being invited to discuss poverty over scotch and wine. Moreover, during natural disasters when photogs and NGOs parachute in…the NGOs invariably hit the swanky hotels in the area, I am sure since they are so concerned about the “welfare” of humanity…we could certainly fall in the category and receive some money for our pictures.
And by the way Miguel attaboy ! not everybody can write what you have…!

by Anamitra Chakladar | 15 Dec 2006 11:12 | New Delhi, India |

This is a classical example of why photogs need to think of their work in a business-like manner. Of course photo buyers have a limited budget. So do you when you want to buy a car. They, and you, want to drive down the price as much as you can. The person on the other side (meaning you in the case of selling photos) simply has to resist and make a reasonable demand for compensation (OK, maybe reasonable plus 10%). Then you get to a middle ground. How many photogs buy things in the markets of LDC locations where you are on a shoot when you will readily bargain over some vegetables? Why wouldn’t you just as readily bargain over your valuable work product?

I recognize that we all have a lot of emotion wrapped up in our work. But we have to be able to take a step back and realize that if we act reasonably about pricing it, we will get to a reasonable price. The solution is simply to inform yourself what market prices are for photos and photog services. People who will not pay them, you just don’t want to deal with.

by Neal Jackson | 16 Dec 2006 02:12 | Washington, DC, United States |

Why photographers are not starting their own database by their own photo on a old computer at their own home. I have use a old computer make a server of it and sell my own photos by a minimum price of 80 Euro for editorial use for commercial is 250 Euro.
I have now 28.000 images in high resolution on line free search only for the download of the high resolution you need a pass and in-log account. This is the future for the photographer of to marrow. look at http://www.upaphoto.com I never will working again with agencies never ever again.

by Robert Goddyn | 16 Dec 2006 08:12 | Work at The Hague, Netherlands |