[Lightstalkers] Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:29:16 +0000

"All Contestants understand and agree that any Submission may be used by Sponsor for marketing and promotional purposes including in any media such as exhibitions, print and digital media. All winning Contestants understand that their name, likeness and winning Submission will be used for marketing and promotional purposes including in any media such as publicity, exhibitions, print and digital media.":http://www.photographybooknow.com/rules.html Oh, and you don't get the stupid $35. You pay it.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:46:16 +0000

But look at the exposure! And maybe, if I'm lucky, they'll include a picture of me wearing a scarf....

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:49:19 +0000

"The State of the Art":http://stateoftheart.popphoto.com/blog/2008/03/book-this.html: "To affordably make a book of one’s own photography, with complete creative control, is a liberating, exciting, highly personal, and satisfying experience," says Eileen Gittins, CEO of Blurb, one of the contest sponsors (others include Livebooks, Flickr, SmugMug, and American Photo). Can't help but stupidly read that as, "To gain control over a ton of books full of original photography, with complete creative control, is a liberating, exciting, highly profitable, and satisfying experience," says every one of the contest sponsors. The State of the Art Security Alert is Red, meaning Severe. Take cover.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:05:51 +0000

I think this sort of apparent weirdness is well described here: http://aphotoeditor.com/2008/03/14/pay-to-play/ This seems to be the norm in that strange parallel universe of advertising/fashion/"art" photography, god help them.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:17:16 +0000

Not exactly Jerry, It could be on the emerging market, and ther is always people strving willing to sell their soul..at the mean time, fortunately there is still a serious stablished one where you show, sell, publish, get paid and not the other way around..What you need to do is respect yourself and not enter the " dirty show" cheers, Pupo

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:39:44 +0000

I could use them 25 grand to upgrade my gear. But I won't give away the rights to my (crappy) pictures, Angel on my shoulder has won it again from the devilish money grabbing one on the other.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:21:38 +0000

Isn't this kind of rights thing standard now? The really bad language that one sees is "unlimited use and in all media including advertising." $35 doesn't seem like that much to me either, but maybe I am missing something? Am I naive enough to think that this is all on the level? The number that sticks in my mind is $25,000...as a price tag. Is that the sticker on a photo book these days?

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:47:35 +0000

All a matter of opinion, naturally. The way I read the Blurb book contest terms, Blurb and the other sponsors do get unlimited use in all media including advertising, for all the images in all the books submitted for the contest, winner and losers. So, the way I read it, for $35 one has the privilege of giving them a ton of one's photos to use, in a ready to cull book form, everywhere, forever. In return they dish out $20k for one middle of the road book that offends nobody and pleases most. My view is to say: I'm not that stupid. But, naturally, you're entitled to see it your way, and so is everyone else.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 29 Jul 2008 15:54:34 +0000

Yes, you are quite correct. Marketing in promotion would include advertising for Blurb, Canon, all of the sponsors....its definitely a bad deal, and even more surprisingly the language of the contest leaves the winner open to doing almost anything with the 25K. But as photographers get more and more desperate I suppose its inevitable....

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:01:50 +0000

Indeed. Yet another sign of the direction the industry is taking when everyone is able to 1) buy a cheap digicam, 2) wants to be published, 3) corporations know it, 4) capitalize on it, 5) for free, 6) or better yet charge a submission fee, 7) leaving pros sucking their stupid thumbs.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:04:42 +0000

The rules state it's the lawyers fault that they have all the rules - seems like all of you are being a bit harsh. :-)

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:20:44 +0000

Harsh? Maybe. Then again it was nine lawyers' fault that Bush is US president, so perhaps it's not such a stupid idea to pay attention to what lawyers have to say, instead of ignoring them and wishing otherwise.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:22:57 +0000

I would expect them to want to use my images for marketing and promotional reasons..I still don't see the huge issue in this particular case. Usage also states Copyright and all other rights remain those of Contestant and/or any third parties from whom Contestant has obtained permission to use the third party's material(s). Any book or image of the book used by Sponsor shall carry the photographer's credit line.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:02:03 +0000

As I understand it, the official rules for the use of images entered in this competition apply to all the sponsors, not just Blurb which is online bookpublishing business, but also other sponsors such as Canon. They can use your images for whatever they see fit. That is what Stupid and others are concerned about in my opinion.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:07:07 +0000

Precisely. The USE RIGHTS granted by the entrants are, for all intents and purposes, blanket. For all the images included, in perpetuity, in all markets, in any way, shape or form. As I already said, holding on to one's COPYRIGHT is one thing, stupidly paying to give away one's USE RIGHTS forever, everywhere, is another. Every publisher I have ever dealt with wanted to know if the image use rights were mine. Were they already given away by me to some Sponsors, forever, everywhere, for any purpose, I'd have been shown the door, in one nanosecond.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:16:59 +0000

I hear you, and of course I am concerned, but can you show me where it says 'for any purpose'? Marketing and promotional to me don't mean 'any and all'..

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:31:14 +0000

They're as smart as it gets, so don't be stupid. Meaning, your question strikes me as upside down. Legal question is: what uses, absolutely, does Marketing and Promotional leave out?

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:36:02 +0000

As I see it, their wording of "marketing and promotional" is not limited to this competition. There is no end date stated nor do they state the object of marketing and promotion, which leaves the activity to any marketing and promotional activities of the sponsors involved. I don`t have any reference, but generally competition organizsers do want the use of images in competition for promoting the competition or exhibition, and they would state a limiting clause. In this case I don`t find one.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:40:52 +0000

I have googled and found one example. "By entering the Wildlife in North Carolina 2008 Photo Competition, entrants grant Wildlife in North Carolina magazine the right to publish and use submitted photographs in print or electronic form to promote the competition. Reproduction of entries will include photographer credit.":http://www.ncwildlife.org/contest/ You`ll find the above in "fine print."

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:42:13 +0000

i left word on the other post, but gotta say (and there are ALOT of photographers who've entered this competition who i like/know (personally) and respect (professionally)) that i'm left totally at a loss with this competition (but i often feel that way for all competitions)... while, for me, copyright ownership is pre-eminent in my consideration of things SO TOO Right of Useage....in my kind of photography, maybe some might not understand why i'd be so upset, but Useage (for me) is the same...those photographers who've done PJ/Docu work should be even more incensed....I shoot someone's face...years later that person's face is used as advertisment for client xyz...sound like a farce?....anyone remember certain pics from Katrina used as billboard campaign advertisement in Brazil? ;)) (and that photog was a big name, and the campaign was anti-smoking, etc)...and that was with the photogs consent... i want to publish a book as much as the next gal/guy, but increasingly, it seems that our hunger for opulence (attention/publishing/respect) seems to outweight our considerations... then again, it seems like every one has published a book except me and my wife (who is a great photographer), and it seems like we're lost amid the scattering crowd ;))... dangle $$ (25K) and the word book in front of folk and people go apoplectic to enter .... i just wish the hunger and the $ available were there to service rather than incite... b

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:50:44 +0000

There is nothing wrong with Blurb and other on-demand self-publishers out there. In fact, in my stupid opinion, Blurb stands head and shoulders above its competition. Their store rocks. Their quality is what you pay for. Their price is the best in the industry, at present, no matter how vexing their latest software. Still, leader in the industry. Nobody else cheaply self-publishes on-demand, one of a kind, 440 page books. Simply put, I use Blurb all the time and am very happy to do so. No reason you Bob, and your wife, can't do the same. Matter of spending time. The software is free. You only pay for the books you buy, no more, no less. All of which has absolutely nothing to do with this image use rights grab contest, naturally.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:53:22 +0000

I dont think anyone would dangle 25K in front of me for anything, contest or no contest.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:55:21 +0000

Bob, I have not entered this competition, either. As Stupid warned, this particular competition does have a problem, but if the sponsors wish to use the entrants` images for promotional purposes of the sponsors` businesses, then they have to use images with model releases when people in the images are recognizable. Therefore not every image can be used for their purposes.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:03:22 +0000

Stoop: I LOVE blub too. I've recommended it too friends and one of my closest friends (LS member Velibor Bozovic) published 2 books with blub. Incidentally; BUY HIS FRIEND SASH HEMON'S BOOK; LAZARUS Project :))..Veba's photos are used in the book).... and i have nothing wrong with self publishing (Seventh Wave and i believe Dream Life were self-published, as well as lots of books i admire profoundly by photographers i admire profoundly), and Marina and I have thought about this too... my objection is with the Competition and the rights grab associated it with it.... I just dont understand it...i understand the photographers who want to publish and who want to win $$ (shit, i need $$ now too, big time), but for what value.... it all now seems so desperate...and that is what makes me sad...that in mind, if i were with blub, i'd create the same thing ;)))) b

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:03:26 +0000

I don't know about that Tomoko..it says that the winning author must hold all rights and releases..so maybe someone without them gets disqualified if they win? Maybe that also works as a reason to pull one's entry if so desired? I might try calling these lovely people to get some answers. I certainly don't want my images used to promote toilet paper or something, but my understanding was that the usage was for the contest promotion..

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:03:39 +0000

Exactly, Akaky. It's like a stupid slot machine. You feed it your coin (book in this case), pull the lever, and you might win. Likely not. Either way, they have your coin (book) to do with as they please. And someone, eventually, gets a prize. Then they'll pimp the winner, along with the cute losers, all over the known universe, for as long as possible, to get more people to pull the lever. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:05:19 +0000

I think the only drawback to this contest from a rights standpoint is that it is unlikely that another publisher would reprint and distribute your book. Some of us use Blurb to create book dummies and portfolios but don't see them as an end product. But if you use Blurb to create a high-quality pitch book for a publisher, you probably shouldn't enter the contest, unless the new book is going to be significantly different. Also, it would seem that Blurb considers your "Submission" to be the book itself and not a collection of images.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:13:22 +0000

Don't call those lovely Blurb people to get answers, Erica. Call a qualified lawyer, like I did, before I started this thread. Only Little Red Riding Hood calls the Wolf to ask if it's safe to prance in the stupid forest.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:25:50 +0000

Preston..all if you use them to make the book as a portfolio, and it isn't in the contest, how is that different in the eyes of a potential traditional publisher? If I want these images to be considered for traditional publishing, should I not have a dummy book either? This was just like a little portfolio to me, but I entered it. Everyone is in accord that that act would keep a traditional publisher from using the same images? Or only if it won?

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:40:08 +0000

It would seem that if you enter the contest, you are thereby granting non-exclusive rights, for marketing and distribution purposes, of your book (not the individual images)--and you can't revoke them. It would be unlikely that powerHouse or Aperture is going to reprint and distribute, essentially, what Blurb now has rights to. This is just assuming that your Blurb book is the same as what you envision for your traditionally published book. What would be the traditional publisher's interest in acquiring it? Remember that you can create a book with Blurb and not have it for sale on the Blurb site, and you don't have to enter it in the contest. It's not the images--it's the book that's clouded by Blurb's contest.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:51:06 +0000

"This was just like a little portfolio to me, but I entered it." - erica mcdonald The bummer for you here is the part where you entered your book in this stupid contest. Absolutely nothing in the general Blurb terms of use that says they get to use your content. Only the entrants to the contest in question agreed to that idiotic part. Simply put: Blurb presently rules the self-publishing universe. However, this contest's terms of use suck dog poop.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 19:57:18 +0000

i just realized that I typed Blurb as "blub" for my post...pretty funny when you re-read it ;))))...must have been some freudian slop-slip ;))... yea, i have no objection to Blurb either, and the books look lovely.....it's just part of the economic model: and why would blurb be earmarked as different.....i can wait for terms that i can live with :))

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:00:02 +0000

Call me red ridinghood, but I emailed blurb to see if they can address this. We have collectively improved legal terms before..possibly there is room for that here.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:02:00 +0000

"Ex post facto":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law? Clearly they're not that stupid.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:12:23 +0000

It should also be pointed out that Blurb as a self-publishing venture is in uncharted territory when it comes to its impact on traditional publishing. You have always been able to self-publish a book, but Blurb also offers a distribution channel. Another such self-publisher, Fastback Creative, does not have an online bookstore. It just creates the product and delivers it to you. So the great thing about Blurb is your ability to market yourself (or let them do it through the contest we're talking about). At some point in the near future, it's inevitable that you would be able to buy a Blurb book on Amazon and that the company will find a way to get some of its books in front of Barnes & Noble buyers. At that point, why would you need a traditional publisher? This is either a great thing or the downfall of civilization as we know it, depending on your POV. There is still some stigma attached to self-publishing, as if quality materials will always find a mainstream publisher. But we all know this is not the case. Even if you get your book published by a university or medium-sized trade press, the book will be overpriced, the advertising budget will be minimal, and you will still have to do most of the marketing yourself. At that point, Blurb might be a better option. The only thing Blurb doesn't offer that a traditional publisher does is a qualified editor--which is important.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:30:28 +0000

"At some point in the near future, it’s inevitable that you would be able to buy a Blurb book on Amazon "-Preston Merchant Not just in the stupid near future, present and past as well: http://forums.blurb.com/forums/1/topics/2610

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:56:23 +0000

Hi all, Mike here with Blurb. Wanted to weigh in on this discussion, especially as it relates to how Blurb will use books that are submitted to the Photography.Book.Now competition. (Thanks, Erica, for the note alerting us to the conversation.) Here's the deal - this event is all about celebrating the modern photography book movement, and the intent is to showcase the amazing work we're seeing at several events around the world. These events - a traveling salon, symposia and meet-ups - have all been created as touch-points for the photography community to come together and celebrate all this great work being done. We're showcasing these books in all the Photography.Book.Now events, and as part of the campaigns around these events. All content still belongs to the bookmakers. Acknowledging your book may be used for marketing purposes simply gives Blurb the ability to showcase your best work - with your attribution of course. Hope that clarifies this issue - thanks to everyone who has submitted work, and I look forward to hopefully meeting some of you at our events this fall.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:04:37 +0000

"Acknowledging your book may be used for marketing purposes simply gives Blurb the ability to showcase your best work – with your attribution of course. Hope that clarifies this issue..."-Mike Barash No. It does not. Not at all. Stupid as we may seem, we know that does not even start to deal with the USAGE questions voiced before you showed up. Not one iota. Please read ALL the posts above and try again, with laws in mind. Thanks in advance.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:36:38 +0000

I'm not a lawyer - I'm simply trying to help you understand how submitted books will be used by Blurb for marketing purposes. You're not signing your life away here people - we're celebrating the very work that you do, and in order to showcase the best of that work at our events and to drive awareness of those events, we need your permission to use that content. Anyway - here's the deal - I totally get the concern here, and this is your business. You have every right to be concerned. I can't change the legalese, but I can tell you the intent of Blurb here, and that's to celebrate your work - NOT to manipulate the words to gain access to your content.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:44:38 +0000

"You have every right to be concerned. I can’t change the legalese, but I can tell you the intent..."-Mike Barash Intent. Forget the stupid legalese. Got it. All I needed to hear. Thanks.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:47:27 +0000

Hi Mike, thanks so much for showing up.. do you think it might be possible to get one of the legal people to discuss how sponsors and blurb interpret marketing and promotion, and to address Stupid's perception that "Blurb and the other sponsors do get unlimited use in all media including advertising, for all the images in all the books submitted for the contest, winner and losers." and "The USE RIGHTS granted by the entrants are, for all intents and purposes, blanket. For all the images included, in perpetuity, in all markets, in any way, shape or form."

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:57:34 +0000

Erica, the legalese does not say anything about "all the images in the books submitted for the contest" (other than the fact that the author of the book has to own or secure the copyright on them). The idea that Blurb can unpack the book and use the images in it -- as distinct from marketing the book itself -- is Stupid's contribution to this discussion. It would be hard for Blurb to address what is NOT in the contract. It seems pretty clear that the entrants are agreeing to let Blurb advertise and market their books, which used to be considered a good thing.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:04:14 +0000

First of all kudos for Mike coming on LS to discuss this with the community.....I personally never thought that this was anything over than a good opportunity, but the language in the contract was unacceptable and was worded simply to protect the sponsors, and that is unacceptable to us. Even the appearance of a rights grab should be avoided, even if we know that appearance and reality are two different things.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:20:45 +0000

I also think it´s great that Mike joined the discussion and wonder why the Blurb couldn´t re-draft an agreement in unambiguous terms regarding both copyright, with which there is obviously no problem, and Usage Rights, where the issue lies. It´s as simple as saying that Blurb aims to do what Mike has said, and will use the images to that end: including, x, y and z. Should an unforeseen use for the images arise that is related to Blurb´s initial mission, contest participants will be contacted to authorize said use. I hope the issue gets ironed out, and that Blurb considers a future contest, because I would like to participate in a contest that truly seeks to promote photography books and photographers.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:54:33 +0000

When clients tell you they need all rights, copyright transfers, work-made-for-hire, and so forth, and tell you they'll never do anything with them "we just need to get all the rights...", it's highly likely they are mis-informed, or just not telling the truth. http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/08/conde-nast-encyclopedia-britannica.html !http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/zzzzazzdggg50.jpg!

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:49:08 +0000

Looks like Washington Life is selling prints from their collection of assigned photos from Washington events in the past "here":http://photos.washingtonlife.com/

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:18:52 +0000

I just copied below the last phrase from Submission Guidelines at photographybooknow.com. "Contestant agrees to indemnify Sponsor against any and all claims from any third party for any use by Sponsor, its agents, successors or representatives, of Contestant's Submission. Contestant must secure - and selected winners will be required to submit – a written release from any persons featured in the Submission to use their name and likeness under the terms and conditions of these official rules.":http://www.photographybooknow.com/rules.html It sounds like they might use the image featured in the Submission for commercial purposes because they want model releases from winners.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:27:59 +0000

Thats crazy-- its a photo book....not an ad competition.

Re: Give away a book's worth of your photos, forever, for $35

Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:29:16 +0000

Well, that's one stupid way of looking at it. Clearly, they're looking at it from a much smarter POV. Arthur Schlesinger called it "displacement of conflict." Simply put, don't look at the left had screwing you, look at the right hand amusing you with the lovely magic trick. MUST remember LAWYERS run all current corporations. For profit. If a LAWYER is offering to give you tens of thousands of dollars, what exactly do you figure they will omit taking from you in return, with any and all legal means you grant to them, at their detailed request?