[Lightstalkers] CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:16:08 +0000

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=80475&newsChannel=newsOne

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:20:22 +0000

SHAME !

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:24:14 +0000

Its shocking and inexcusable.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:58:13 +0000

unfortunately this is getting all too common... journalists and photographers killed because of what they do... sad sad sad...

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:24:03 +0000

It would be inexcusable if it were true. This looks like another Pallywood incident. See here for detail on this specific story: http://www.snappedshot.com/index.php?url=archives/1891-Palestinian-Fauxtography.html&serendipity[csuccess]=true#feedback See here for background on Pallywood: http://www.seconddraft.org/movies.php http://www.zombietime.com/fraud/ambulance/

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:01:49 +0000

Ohh for Christ's sake, more arm chair analysis by the self-appointed judiciary - which has such a great track record for credible, impartial work too - and more stirring the pot around here by people who - intriguingly - refuse to use their real names. Enough. Real people are actually *REALLY* dead or injured. Enough of the propaganda.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:05:37 +0000

For Christ's sake, who's the one with the arm chair analysis, ready to assign blame? Israel came out within a day to deny responsibility - they learned from the Al Durah case. Read the links first before making assumptions. I've gone through the photos, have you? There are obvious lies (e.g., car goes on fire AFTER the ambulance is gone from the scene). It looks like the reporter really died, but it also looks like Israel had nothing to do with it.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:48:20 +0000

I've seen unedited footage of the incident and I can say that the car doesn't go on fire AFTER the ambulance is gone; there is ALREADY a fire on it's back and you can even notice it from the SMOKE in the photo on the link you gave. When the ambulance is leaving the scene, the fire has spread to all of the car.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:34:36 +0000

This is no armchair analysis. This is armchair speculation. Even that blogger acknowledges that Shana was quite possibly shot at and even killed by the IDF ("wong place at the wrong time"). But because a car bursts into flames not according to his expected storyline, he concludes it's most likely all fake. I guess, he must have had experience as a professional fire inspector in war zones. Ohh, sure, I forgot an important point: Palestinian journalists mourn the death of a colleague and possibly friend. In the view of our blogger, this is a clear sign that the incident was staged. How cynical can you become? The paradoxy of this "fauxtography" hype is that LGF, Snappedshot etc. all claim that we are permanently being lied at by photojournalists (who are, in their view, merely propagandists shooting staged incidents) and at the same time base their analysis solely on photos of these very photojournalists.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:43:01 +0000

My comment from an earlier thread which given the presence of 'Joe Shmoe' has even more resonance and credibility- "This is appalling, the guy was only 23 years old and he was traveling in a clearly marked car stating it was TV media. He had been working for Reuters for 3 years- no-one can justify this! It was an airstrike apparently and all you trolls can say what you like but this is an indefensible action by the Israeli's. SHAME! Anyone who is a photojournalist/journalist/camera person could only realize how wrong something like this is. There should be a complete investigation and an apology and compensation to this man's family. Addendum- The footage reveals it was a tank shell."

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:53:35 +0000

And for F&$#'s sake who are the 'Snapped Shot' anyway? And why are they STEALING copyrighted photos? At least pay for your content you B#@%^*#'s!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:15:31 +0000

Wow, a flurry of ad-hominem attacks. If the fire was there before the ambulance, then explain this photo: car not on fire, next to ambulance with wounded. Also notice that there are no dead on the ground yet. Strange...the car is not on fire, the ambulance is there, and there are no dead on the ground. Is this the first shot when they were setting things up? According to the other photos (and people claiming to see unedited photos on this comment board), the car was supposed to be on fire before the ambulance showed up! I'll wait for the explanation... While you're answering that one...explain why the windshield is in ok condition in the photo above, cracked when the fire starts and smashed in when the fire is over. So you're saying the windshield broke itself as the day went on? Or did the "firefighters" do it for dramatic effect? For those who keep saying "shame" - put that word back on yourself. It is because there is no fact checking on biased reporting in a clearly tense region that the media becomes a party to blood libels like Al Durah. That causes MORE killing, not less. Also, why is everybody so afraid to check my links on the fake ambulance story in my first post? That was clear Fauxtography that was covered worldwide - are you guys afraid to admit that it can happen? I know, it's a lot easier to call me a troll than face the truth.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:28:01 +0000

some of your links are dead and/or not there at all. please correct.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:33:55 +0000

Thanks Mustafah, I just removed them. There is a problem with the HTML here, so I gave up. The point can be made without them, and people can go to Yahoo photos for more. The one link I put up says 1000 words on its own.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:18:33 +0000

Oh, here is an update. Snappedshot wrote: "I'm not sure what my Lightstalking friends are going to think about that little twist, but this is pretty convincing evidence." Well, here is the convincing evidence: http://patdollard.com/2008/04/reuters-cameraman-tank-projectile-mystery-solved/ I'd say, t's convincing evidence that he was killed by the IDF. Or did I misunderstand something, Mr. Joe Shmoe Crime Scene Investigator???? So, what is your point? Are you blaming some Palestinian for setting fire on a journalist's car (which I doubt is true)? Are you blaming his colleagues for openly mourning his death? Do you think that he was sympathizing with terrorists (as Patt Dollard does without any evidence? I just don't get it.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:49:23 +0000

Blame the victims.....its an easy game. One sees what one wants to and certainly there are many who would rather believe these revisionist, conspiracy theories than deal with the sad realities of war and the dangers of reporting on them.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:02:59 +0000

It's very sad, and even sadder that an asshole (Joe Shmoe) tries to make politics with the death of Fadel.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:47:43 +0000

La vida es el camino al sepulcro.... Very Sad...knowing that life is an ultimately terminal endeavour that we can still find the time to hate one another. Very Sad indeed.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:39:46 +0000

I decline to believe people who do not use their real names.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:10:40 +0000

"CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES" It is sad to see yet another journalist die but this header is pejorative in the extreme and shows a strong political bias.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:27:06 +0000

First i totally agree with Neal Jackson about the people that doesn´t put the face and the name togheter with their opinions (whatever this opinions are), see the lists of participants in this post and see who is not giving the face, that one should be ashamed. The one looking frame by frame how a car window cracks or doesn´t, while there is 3 more dead bodies assassinated by another unjustified attack of the IDF. The one that calls "propaganda" the pain of the journalist community that see another partner killed while trying to bring some information to the rest of the world...shame on that one..."It looks like the reporter really died..."...yeah a reporter really died by the penetration of the spikes of another weapon of misery and distruction and the family and collegues are really feeling pain and indignation...

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:13:50 +0000

Oscar - I think you may have had some difficulty with the translation. My post was to suggest that peddling (yet) more anti-"MSM" conspiracy theories by people with political more than humanistic intent is disgraceful in the aftermath of what we know did actually happen - more non-combatants killed.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:20:33 +0000

Wade...sorry...my post was not referring to your ideas, i was talking about the one that puts the opinion without face and try to find "set up mistakes" in this last video that really shows another crime against the civil palestinians and against the press that cover the conflict...

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:56:02 +0000

More ad-hominem attacks. It's incredible to read these comments by people claiming to be journalists. Isn't journalism about getting to the truth through facts? If so, then why hasn't anybody commented on how this photo contradicts all the later photos (no fire, no bodies on the ground,...) nor has anybody commented on the history of media misuse for gain in this tense region. James has had the courage to at least acknowledge that the header is extreme and with bias. Everybody else is willing to work by the fallacy of confirmation bias - confirming that the IDF is unjustified, shameful, sad,... One person mentioned a FOX video (along with another personal attack). That part of the video was never what I was disputing. Somebody clearly took a video of tank firing, and may have even been killed...and that person may have been Shana. My point is that the other part of the video (and the photographs that go with it) have enough errors in them to question the story that was portrayed. Also, given that the Palestinians have a history of staging stories and using them for deadly blood libel (Al Durah is one example), rushing to a guilty Israel judgment is dangerous. Also, Israel denied responsibility for Shana's death rather quickly, which is unusual if you've followed the history of that region. If Shana was killed willingly and purposely by the IDF, then it would be shameful. However, if there are lies in the story, then it is possible that the entire story was twisted for political purpose. It is possible that even if Shana took the video, that he was not openly displaying his press affiliation, but, instead, part of a militant group with weapons when the tank fired. That last sentence is pure speculation, but the current story cannot be taken on face value either. I understand that emotions are high here, but the rush to judgment is unfair without even looking at the facts. I believe I'm done here. Let the personal attacks begin.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:19:51 +0000

While there have definitely been a few unusual incidents in the past with Middle East fauxtography (the one where Tyler Hicks got nailed comes to mind), this one seems fairly straightforward- and quite sad.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:10:46 +0000

It is indeed a sad event. What I don't get is why the outrage about this senseless death and not about others. Everyone that dies in this conflict is a senseless death but professionals (photographers or soldiers from both sides) choose to go into the battle zone and they/we know the risks. I am by far more outraged when civilians are being targeted – they made no decision to be part of this conflict yet they suffer the most.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:42:54 +0000

I've never said or written that staging doesn't happen. In fact, I believe it's common practice - on both sides. It is a war that is fought in the media. Every side uses their accesible means to influence the public perception. One side holds up dead bodies to photographers, the other side launches subtle PR-campaigns. In this very case, I think the "evidence" presented is not very convincing. It is rather pure speculation. Read Tamar's post to get one possible explanation for the photo you linked, Mr. Shmoe. P.S.: If Joe Shmoe is actually your real name (there must be thousands of real Joe Shmoes in the US), I'm deeply sorry for the "personal attack" on you. If it is not your real name, I just can't see any personal attack.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:20:18 +0000

Joe Shmoe, While staging surly takes place this event seem as real as they come: 1. A photographer park his TV marked car, 2. get out and set a tripod, 3. kids gather around him (as kids always do in Gaza – around cameramen and around militants) 4. photographer asks his sound person to move them away 5. photographer mounts a TV camera on the tripod 6. Tank can not see the car(and the TV marking) as it is parked in an alley with large bush hedge in the line of sight from the tank (if they would see the car and would target it - they would have used at least anti-vehicle amunition - which they did not) 7. Tank identify what they see an anti-tank missile being mounted on a tripod (TV cameras look a lot like missiles launchers) 8. Tank fires two rounds of anti personal flachette ammunition 9. First round kills the camera man 10. 2nd round lands behind the sound men, wounding the children Sad but realistic. No staging involved. Instead of blaming the tank crew (18-19 years old kids as well) it is time to point the finger at the leaders on both sides that prolong this reality in which everyone on both sides suffer. Yes Joe, Israeli leaders are also to be blamed not just Hamas.

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 07:11:06 +0000

I'm not in any way taking sides on this, but I've often wondered if it's really a very smart move to be working with on-the-shoulder gear in a combat zone. Back in the day a betacam was your only option for getting pictures good enough to use on the nightly news, so you'd have to go on shoulder or on a tripod to shoot...and take your chances as far as being misidentified. But these days you can shoot with much smaller cameras...cameras that aren't as threatening to a soldier when viewed from a distance. You could even shoot at waist level to avoid a mixup...anything but that classic thing-on-shoulder with both arms holding it posture...

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:33:56 +0000

One of the things I have learned in many situations in the west bank is to move slow, very slow. Never to make rush moves - even at the cost of losing a photo. My life is dear to me more than any photo. I always try to think how my moves are perceived by soldiers or policemen. If there is any doubt I show them the gear that this is a camera using my hands above my head. There is an interview with the tank gunner or commander in the Israeli press this morning. I don't have in front of me so I am quoting from memory: "all we saw was a shadow of 4x4 vehicle suddenly stops behind bushes, a person come rushing out and quickly sets up some mounting device (e.g. the tripod EDO) mounted something on it that looked to us as a missile and pointed it to our direction. We did not have any time or more information, our life were threatened and it is a split second decision to fire"

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:02:25 +0000

I've just watched that first link to the Reuters report. Unless I'm missing something the reporter mentions that Shana had escaped a previous attack and then it cuts to library footage of his vehicle that was hit in this earlier attack (vehicle next to ambulance on fire)So this is footage completely unrelated to the incident that killed him. Maybe take another look at the report, Joe?

Re: CAMERAMAN ASSASSINATED IN GAZA BY ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCES

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:16:08 +0000

If you are right, Nigel, it won't be reconsidered if it does not support Joe's world view. When is the last time you saw any objectivity in discussions on this subject?