http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography An entire Lightstalkers thread via RSS/XML. en-us Where to begin? Is this something I can easily pick up, or should I take a class..if so, where in NYC? What are the major heartaches of 4x5? Best camera/lenses for the money? What does it cost to buy and process a single sheet of film? Does it expose like medium format, or is it trickier? peace and good things... Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:07:44 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography Erica, Go pinhole! Bill. Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:37:14 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120061 Hi Erica, Maybe the least expensive way to start would be to find a working old Speed Graphic camera. The Kodak readyload or Fuji quickload films are really nice to use, but expensive. And you can use a Polaroid back with those films as well, rather than buying their specific holders (there are a few minor drawbacks, but it works). Kevin Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:46:49 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120063 My favorite format - it's beautiful. lots of different types. Film is over a $1.00/sheet and processing the same, push/pull add more $$$'s . But you can pick up deals on cameras although good lenses are v.expensive, or get a field camera http://www.adorama.com/TY45CF.html humidity can warp the film, dust can be a major problem. You can teach yourself but I think ICP or SVA have classes. Here's a site with basic info http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/4x5.htm. I always have my positive film done at a lab so can't help with tips/drawbacks re processing. If you use colour positive film and precision is needed you need to test each batch you buy as colour shifts quite noticeably. To rent for try outs cameras cost about $90/week at most places in NY and lenses the same ( you can also rent for months at fairly good prices) - I like the Horseman LX for assignment purposes, but would love a field camera to travel. Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:22:45 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120065 I had my stupid start in 4x5 with the three book set by "Ansel Adams, The Camera, The Negative, and The Print":http://cgi.ebay.com/Ansel-Adams,-The-Camera-The-Negative-The-Print,-3-Books_W0QQitemZ190217493065QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0804250945a14357. Still can't think of a better intro, and most every library has them. Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:23:28 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120066 I 2nd Stupid- Read Ansel Adams and just GO! Cameras are really chap these days (at least in Europe) And a good Sinar (the state of the art brand) with lenses, filmholders and polaroidback will set you back 800-1500€. Make sure you have a very heavy tripod. There is a sense of zen wit a large format camera. Everything takes longer time and is much more elaborate. The advantage is that you are MUCH more thorough and a whole day of work can end up with as little as 2 exposed films that you are 100 percent sure is correct. GO! Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:38:43 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120067 Well, I do remember somebody on the course I took back in the 70's loading the dark slide into the developer instead of the sheet of 4x5 film! We used to use 5x4 Gandolfis, but there was also a monster 20x16 with it's own stand. Like every piece of photographic gear at college, the Gandolfis had all been absolutely hammered over the years-but seeing the results on sheet film was well worth the trouble. Go for it Erica ! Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:39:33 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120068 If you want portable 4x5, can't stupidly think of anything better than a "converted Polaroid":http://www.eastcamtech.com/110b_4x5_graflok.htm. Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:46:50 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120070 so, ok sister: this means you'll be bequeathing Ms. Rollei to us, right?...... have fun: it's a wild wild ride with the ole 4x5's :)))))... hugs bob ps. will write u tomorrow... pps. st. k that inspired u?? '))) Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:02:24 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120080 i love you all...what do you make of the Crown Graphic or the Ikeda for field work? (won't process my own film, just won't..)the next course at ICP isn't till summer, so maybe I'll just buy and try with those books.think the ready loads can be used with the above cameras?) Bob, it's a toss up btwn a Hass with changeable lenses and a 4x5..I've had a project I have really been wanting to do for awhile now, that just won't leave me alone..and I need closeness/clarity..don't even think about putting Rollei in that new bag from DAH and walking away! :) I may need an assistant, but would just be for lunch/credit kind of thing if anyone is game this summer..might post this separately when I have some details worked out.. Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:32:01 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120083 Couple of cheap sources here - http://www.gaoersi-camera.com/cp.php?nowmenuid=3300 http://www.shen-hao.com/E45.html And if you haven't seen it yet, David Burnett's work with the Speed Graphic and Aero Ektar lens is worth checking out. I try using 5x4 cyclically, giving up each time because it's too heavy, expensive, slow and no client will pay me the increased expense or wait longer for the pictures... and I don't think it suits my temparament... If you do portrait work and are feeling brave, I reckon that the Graflex Super D would be an interesting choice. I saw some great work from Arthur Elgort made with one... Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:41:14 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120084 Can't go wrong with the classic Crown Graphic. Most of us stupid old geezers started with them. I still have my first. With a little practice, one can be lightning fast with it. "Sam Shere":http://www.billjayonphotography.com/ExplosionoftheHindenb.pdf made two exposures of the burning Hindenburg with his Graphic, before switching to a Leica. Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:31:04 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120090 Hey, someone have an idea how much cost a razzle or 110B converted 4x5? thanks Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:58:50 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120092 what would one pay for this? http://cgi.ebay.com/Tachihara-4X5-Camera-Outfit_W0QQitemZ230246650780QQihZ013QQcategoryZ15247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem has the 2 lenses I want Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:59:23 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120094 I've shot quite a bit of 4x5, and most recently 8x10, but I gave it up eventually. It's fun and teaches you a lot about photography. And it most certainly slows you down, even when compared to medium format. I second stoop's suggestion to try an old speed graphic or crown graphic. They can be used much like any view camera and are really tough and solid. I'd start with a 150mm lens, it can be used for most anything, though the lenses with that kit you linked to are a bit slow. And wood cameras, while they are beautiful, might not be as solid as a metal field camera. You could also check out the toyos, but they might cost a bit more. Most important thing to look for is a bellows without light leaks. No need for a sinar or other monorail unless you need lots of movements. For portraits and landscapes you probably won't need that much flexibility. My several-year experiment with 8x10 led me to believe that I need to be able to capture moments, and so back to the 35mm rangefinders and tri-x for me. But when I want to slow down, I love shooting with hasselblads, and I love the square format. For me it's a good compromise between speed and image quality. But my reasons for shooting 8x10 were more for the process involved than the final quality of the image. Good luck! Every photographer should try large format sometime. Even if you don't end up liking it, you'll learn a lot from it. Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:18:28 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120099 Hernan, "Complete converted 110B camera for $575 Complete converted 110A camera for $375 $295 for parts and labor.  You supply the camera. ":http://www.eastcamtech.com/Pol110B.htm Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:12:55 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120121 Erica... I have played around (a minimal amount) with a 4x5 camera, and have the greatest respect for those types of photographers. If you send me an e-mail, I would be happy to get you in contact with someone who has been doing it for a few years and would be happy to answer plenty of your questions. Here is some of his work: http://www.tinyvices.com/Mark_McKnight Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:23:54 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120219 Very cool work..that's your work or someone else's? Kicking myself for not buying that Tachihara set..but it was a lot of monney. The more I look I think I don't want a press camera.. I am thinking close-ish portraits/tripod - am I wrong to think I shouldn;t get a press camera? I'm not excited about spending 1,000, but I really want to project to come out as visualized.. Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:27:59 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120256 While press cameras like the crown graphics were once used with rangefinders and handheld, they can certainly be used in a similar fashion to any other field camera. Many used ones have non-working rangefinders or non-matched lenses anyway. So you can focus on the groundglass and use a tripod just like any other view camera. Depending on just *how* close you want to focus, one issue might be the allowable bellows extension with whatever camera you pick, but if you're just talking about head and shoulders portraits, you should be fine. For macro range work you'll need a long bellows. If you don't want to deal with a graphic, I'd check out a used toyo or horseman field camera. Like I said, the wood cameras are beautiful but a metal camera will be sturdy and offer precise movements. If i were on a budget I'd get a super graphic or a crown graphic, neither of which have a built-in focal plane shutter, which is good since it saves weight and you'll use the shutter in the lens anyway. If I had a bit more cash I'd get a used horseman FA. Or if I won the lottery I'd go for a linhof 2000. Either way, any of the 150/5.6 lenses would be ideal for medium or wide portraits, maybe a 210mm/5.6 would be better for very tight portraits. I'd get a Rodenstock or Schneider apo lens. The thing about large format is the the camera really is just a light-tight box. Unless you need extensive camera movements for focus or perspective control, you don't need a fancy camera. A picture with a super graphic and a picture with a $5000 linhof, taken with the same lens, will be identical. Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:07:44 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/getting-into-4x5-photography#120270