http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue An entire Lightstalkers thread via RSS/XML. en-us Recently one of my picts has been selected in competition by Lonely planet. this means that my pict will be part of different exhibitions.in order to do that the lonely planet sent my the following contract to be signed. i would like to get some advise regarding the contract above all point n.2 and n.5.which they seem to me a bit tricky. i have to sign it by 13th Feb.thanks a lot giovanna LETTER OF AGREEMENT Dear Giovanna Recently you entered the Lonely Planet Pikeo Photo Competition, which was run via the Pikeo website at www.pikeo.com between 1 August and 8 September 2008 (the competition). Although your photo didn't win, it was highly regarded by the judges and we'd like to use your photo in marketing and promotional activities in relation to the competition. This letter of agreement is between you and Lonely Planet Publications Pty Ltd (“usâ€*, “weâ€*), and sets out the agreement between you and us to allow us to use your photo in this way. . 1. The Work You agree to provide us with the following image: Digital color image of Elephant and Castle tube station entitled “TUBE’ (the “Workâ€*) in a form approved by us. 2. Grant of copyright licence You grant us a worldwide, irrevocable, non-exclusive licence to reproduce, publish, adapt, translate, distribute and communicate to the public the Work (or any part of it), in any form or media (whether now known or otherwise), for use in marketing and promotional activities in relation to the competition, and the right to sub-licence these rights to our Related Corporations and licensees (for example, for use in in-store or foreign language marketing campaigns in relation to the competition) (the “Licenceâ€*). You warrant that the Work is original to you, the Work does not infringe any existing copyright, the Work is not defamatory of any person or third party and that you have obtained all appropriate model and property releases and consents in connection with the Work to enable you to grant the Licence. 3. Consideration As consideration for the Licence, we will give you 2 free guidebooks of your choice upon delivery of the signed agreement to us, together with the Work. 4. Independent Contractor You are an independent contractor. This agreement does not establish an employee-employer relationship between you and us. 5. Moral rights Despite any moral rights that may otherwise apply, you consent to us or any of our Related Corporations (in exercising any of our rights under, or doing any other act contemplated by, this agreement) not publishing the Work, or publishing part of the Work; storing, using, publishing or communicating the Work in any form or medium (including digital); re-using, altering, editing, treating, adapting or licensing the Work in any way; not attributing you as the author of the whole or part of the Work; attributing you as the author of a work that incorporates additional material not created by you. We will use reasonable efforts to attribute you as author of the Work. 6. Whole agreement This agreement constitutes the whole of the agreement between you and us concerning the Work. 7. Assignment We may assign this agreement and all or any part of the Licence to any of our Related Corporations. 8. Governing law This agreement is governed by the laws of Victoria, Australia. The parties submit to the non exclusive jurisdiction of the courts exercising jurisdiction there without regard to principles of conflicts of law. 9. Definitions In this agreement, Related Corporation means in relation to a party, another company that is: • a holding company or subsidiary of the party; • a subsidiary of a holding company of the party; or • under common control with the party. 2. Your acceptance You accept the terms and conditions contained in this letter of agreement by signing, dating and returning to us 2 copies of this letter. We will co-sign this letter and return 1 copy to you for your records. Please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us if you have any queries. Yours sincerely Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:31:10 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue If you're not happy with the terms, propose your amendments and discuss it with them. Personally, I've never signed an agreement someone has sent me. I always send my own back with the terms that I work under. You usually gain the respect of the client this way, and if you don't (for example if you don't hear from them again), they probably wouldn't have been worth your time or effort anyway. Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:18:56 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141217 It is pretty clear LP position - they want it all and then some. This is a clear reminder of the value of imagery and something you should never forget. I would never sign a contract like this without amending a couple of those points. Negotiate, but be prepared to walk away if it remains a bad deal. www.thomaspickard.com Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:59:57 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141240 Ok, so let me get this one right. In return for using your picture worldwide and for as long as they want they are willing to give you "2 free guidebooks of your choice upon delivery of the signed agreement" NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. I am sure you paid money for your camera gear, how is a guidebook going to help you. They are mad in thier little heads. Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:01:34 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141251 Tell them NO. They say .. ' the right to sub-licence these rights to our Related Corporations' or in other words sell on. Hey if they are going to give you 2 books i will give you say $50.. would you give me a non exclusive license to sell at my discretion for the rest of time?? Surly this is a no brainer but for some (not you Giovanna) snappers they actually do give away their best images.. The world is going mad! Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:16:40 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141252 No, Say no Giovanna. Photos and photographers need more respect. If they want you photos they must PAY you. Do you know that to buy photos for the usage they need they have to pay a lot of money if they buy it from Getty or Corbis or others... Why they want to take your photo for free. Say Fuck! Antonino www.otnphotos.com Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:37:12 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141259 Hi Giovanna. The most important issue is the "moral rights". You never sell the moral rights of a picture. You actually get paid to give a client the right of use for a very specified reason. And in many cases for a certain period of time. Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:42:34 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141303 ..............we will give you 2 free guidebooks.......... Such a wonderfull!!!!!!!!!!!! Say them: Get lost Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:11:42 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141307 Hi Giovanna, first of all congratulations! I’m 100% agree with Raoul Wegat, you should send your terms, and then see. Don’t forget that a photo must always be follow by the author's name. Cheers, Thierry Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:09:20 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141347 "Recently one of my picts has been selected in competition by Lonely planet" what was the prize??? if it is enough to make you sign away all rights then, brilliant, congrats off you go. Otherwise i'd weigh into the 'no' camp here. What to do next? i'd string them along a little, miss the deadline for sending the form, then send an unsigned one... Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:14:30 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141348 perhaps i'm just very bad at legaleez, but i dont see where it says you are signing away all your rights. what i see is that you allow them non-exclusive rights "for use in marketing and promotional activities in relation to the competition" obviously you want to get that clarified, but IF their usage is limited to that, then it seems a perfectly reasonable request. yes, the payment is very low for marketing use, but it is non-exclusive; doesn't stop you from selling the pic elsewhere and its 2 guidebooks you didn't otherwise have. personally, i wouldn't get too precious about it, but i realise i'm in a minority of one so far. Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:32:49 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141353 David... I would like to offer you two 2009 Lonely Planet books but only if you agree to the following terms.. You grant me a worldwide, irrevocable, non-exclusive licence to reproduce, publish, adapt, translate, distribute and communicate to the public the Work (or any part of it), in any form or media (whether now known or otherwise), for use in marketing and promotional activities in relation to the competition, and the right to sub-licence these rights to our Related Corporations and licensees (for example, for use in in-store or foreign language marketing campaigns in relation to the competition) (the “Licenceâ€*). In other words you keep the copyright of the image but you allow me to use the image to promote my company and you wont get a dime. Thats illogical regardless of whether your a Pro or Amateur. I dont mean to flame you or anyone here but it seems to me that all logic is lost when it comes to stock agencys, competitions etc. that have sprung up to take advantage of idiot people. Worse still are the competitions that you have to pay for to enter and you loose all rights just by entering. Organisations like CNN and the BBC also have Rights Grabs just because people are to dumb and lazy.. The bottom line fact is that the image is deemed good enough for them to want it therefore it has a value greater than 2 books RANT OVER .. Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:58:10 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141356 yeah stewart, i read that bit; they get to use the picture to promote the competition. it doesn't mean that LP are going to get a free book cover out of it, or a free 48 sheet poster advertising their products. nor does it mean that they can sell it on to anyone else for any other usage - except as pertains to the competition. pretty normal. <p> at least, I THINK that's what it says; its not my picture that's on the line here and Giovanna would have to confirm what all the small print actually means. <p> yes, its a crap fee, but PERSONALLY - as someone who is licensing pictures on a daily basis - i wouldn't find it that insulting (not to the degree that microstock fees are insulting). sometimes pics sell for $50 and sometimes $5000 - thats how it goes. there are pics of mine still being used to promote competitions i entered years ago (TPOTY, for example) - and i never got so much as a guide book. am i bothered? <p> DISCLAIMER: i'm not a lawyer and if the t&c actually mean that they end up with usage rights above and beyond promoting the competition then i wouldn't go near it. Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:58:51 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141359 If an image is used to promote a competition then its advertising.. Especially if the comp earns money by way of an entrance fee.. Its nothing less than another way of extracting the use of an image for nothing. I take your point David but im absolutely against the microstock business model and the others that pay dimes instead of dollars for images... thats my personal view. I miss the smell of film and yes im from the pre digi revolution. The digital revolution has only really just begun and one of the casualtys is going to be photography as a profession. Its not going to die but the numbers of pro full time snappers will decrease naturally. Its being exacerbated by companys that pay little if nothing at all to amateurs who through their own vanity just want to see their image in print or on the web. Guess its a sign of getting old and grumpy! Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:16:31 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141360 hey, i can do old and grumpy - no fear! <p> i actually completely agree with your position - microstock is the scum of the earth, to be loathed and cursed till the end of time - and of course its fuelling a disastrous downward pressure on picture fees. but in the traditional RM stock world, my average payment from a corbis sale is around $70 (from getty its almost double that) - so fifty bucks worth of travel books is still in the acceptable zone. at least, to me it is; giovanna's mileage may vary... Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:41:18 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141362 Yes $50 may be a good fee for a one off use in one LP book. You cant 'bank' 2 books though.. They could be sold on Ebay though.. at $14.52 each.. Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:01:51 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141366 Gio Well done miss, you didn't even mention this to me. Sadly it seems very clear that LP are out to furnish future books and such in the cheapest fashion possible...previously this may have been through reduced commissions and poor rates of pay but now it seems by throwing some surplus books and making the photographer feel 'lucky' to have their work associated with them. If you agree to this you only stand to weaken your own future, so I agree with trying to redraft. They are the lucky ones to get your work, try and use this to your advantage. adam Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:55:45 +0000 http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/lonely-planet-competition-copyright-issue#141381