How do you pay the bills?

pants down honest… for 3 years until three months ago i was laboring. That included everything from concreting, painting, demolition, carpentery etc, etc.
There were days when i thought i was going to explode! There were days when i was dark and depressed and thinking to myself… “why the fuck am i digging holes… I should be shooting for a living”…

Digging holes paid better than photography does at the moment. But NEVER… EVER will i go back to that back braking and at times demoralising work!

In regards to the other post by Jason… I know its hard, I understand that the industry stinks at the moment and that the future at times seems bleak. But think about this; how do you feel when you are in the moment of taking an image, when you are shooting and creating?? Do you feel alive? Does your heart rate go up? Do you feel on top of the world after you’ve made a good image?? I know I do. Think about how lucky we are to be in such a position, to be working in a creative industry where we have the ability to do so. It definately beats a 9-5 average sit in traffic for 2 hrs and work in an office type job, it also beats digging fucking holes in tropical heat until you think you’re going to faint.

I’m a carpenter. I’m an independent contractor and do small home remodeling jobs. We run a small business at home doing order fulfillment for a friends’ company… and I’m back in school after almost 20 years, part-time over the summer then full-time in the fall (just got back from class actually).

I’m a gigolo on the side. No, wait, that’s a lie. I temp sometimes when I hit a slump and just can’t bring myself to go to Cap Hill and use the camera. (Manic depression and/or ADD, I suppose) Sadly, I can’t quite sneak away for the Coast Guard stuff so easily.

Working as a waitress or bartender helped pay my bills for many years….

It’s weird, I’ve read all the advice for young photographers and not many mention having a paid job to support their quest in being a photographer.

Me, i break into stuff. I have been a legal hacker since 1995 and continue to work with clients on breaking all manners of software/web applications/networks and other juicy bits so that the malicious hackers don’t get there first. The benefit of doing that is I get a healthy balance at the end of the month and also end up persuing projects and throwing obscene abouts of cash and time into something i have yet to make any money from.

My advice to anyone joining this club, make sure you have a reliable source of income. There is nothing worse than trying to be a shooter and not having any cash.

Having any job helps when you decide to get a Leica, hell I might even need to become a coke dealer soon just to afford the damn lenses!

I work as a photographer to keep being a photographer. Novel idea.

Erica… i am not paying my bills… i am incredible broke…
i think i need some other job, because otherwise i will live whole life with my parents (which i dont want!)

I have a full-on day job with a software company. We produce video and image editing software, so it’s in my field of interest, the work I do is creative, I get to travel a lot, and I really enjoy it. It also gives me enough freedom to pursue just the video and photo projects that really interests me. I worked as a freelance video producer/cameraman for several years in South Africa and just couldn’t make ends meet. I pulled up stakes, came to Taiwan, started teaching English to get afloat, got out of debt and worked my way back to doing what I love to do. I’ve never been sorry that I’m not doing it full-time anymore. This way I don’t have to take shit form anyone – if a job smells bad at the outset, I have the luxury of being able to walk away from it without worrying about what my kids are going to eat.

I only pay the for the food and house bills, my wife pays the rest, ( school for our child, house loan, housekeeper and insurances) i shoot for magazines, newspapers and corporate clients. and i’m managing to survive, badly… i have a daugther, her school and the house is usually more than what i earn liquid a month. i’m always living on a limbo… i’m always thinking of other ways of earning money (none found), but my wife tells me to invest my time in shooting :):)

Though I haven’t tried until now to make money through photography, I should say that I am incredibly indebted not only to my husband for supporting us all along, but to the credit card companies for carrying the weight of the photo stuff.

I have a day job to pay the bills, I run a hockey league to pay for my photography hobby. I am getting better at photography but I have no idea how to make money out of it not to mention making a living.

I work with kids who live in poor neighborhoods: I take them out for outdoor sports so they can see someting different… But it’s far from being enough to pay the bills so my girlfriend (my wife really, but we’re not married) pays them. Yeah, me too!!! But we’re both photogs so she understands. I owe her so much!

my dayjob cushion of yore is now gone as well- until recently (business is slow lately), i have mostly been getting by on newspaper assignments, a few magazine gigs and second shooting weddings. i may start teaching high school art in the fall (something i have always wanted to do in addition to being a photographer). otherwise, i may just find a short term job until my own wedding business picks up. in the midst of freelancing for almost a year, i’ve realized i do actually like some consistency to my schedule. i’m thankful and grateful for the work i’ve had, but not knowing when that phone will ring is a really tough thing for me.

Another thing that Eugene Richards talked about at Look3 was getting used to the ups and downs of freelance life, and I think that was very much to the point….almost everyone these days on every level is struggling, even some who one would never expect to be, and its noble and nothing to be ashamed of for sure.

I graduated from ICP/New York 24 months ago, and the first year after, I was parttime freelancing, and parttime interning (for free) at a Wenner Media magazine. Those were rough days.

Since May 2006 I’ve been photo freelancing fulltime, both in USA and Sweden. I get by, but but can’t really go on luxury vacations, can’t buy new expensive lenses etc. Yet. But on the other hand, I get sent on assignments in other parts of the world, so I always take a few extra “holidays” days there. Like in Florida.

This spring, I figured that summer time might be hard times for editorial freelancers like me, so I applied for (and got) a 6 week-summer-job at a major Swedish newspaper as a “photoshopper” which will be both heaven (steady income, good experience, holidayweekends) and hell (9 to 5, work for other people, office work during sunny days).

But overall, I pay my own bills and everything else with photography.. I can afford a night out sometimes, or a new pair of shoes. But it ain’t La Vida Loca. Yet. :)

When I was a fulltime freelancer, my commercial niche was conference photography. I found the shoots very creative. You’ve got time to work a moment. Like mini-photo essays. Once I managed to frame an entire speaker’s head into a glass of water on a table.

My conference niche allowed me to say no to editorial assignments with bad contracts. Throughout my career, I gave myself one bad contract a year if the work was worth it. My conference income let me keep my focus on retaining rights after my one-bad-contract allowance was used up.

Five biz pros: low-overhead (no studio costs or additional gear needed); minimal post-production (unlike weddings which I never did because of the office time); easy to keep copyright ownership since conference photos are used maybe three times: on web soon after, annual report and maybe next year as promo to next annual conference; days rates are commercial not editorial rates which, depending on your market and hours, can put you over $1,000 a day; usually you have at least a week or two heads-up for a shoot date.

One con: grip and grins can be part of the scene. I kept those to a minimum. Only time seem useful is at any receptions or cocktail time. For me, helps break up the evening.

No disrespect to conference photogs around the world, but the market is not awash with great shooters. The conference scene is small like all markets. My name was referred a lot because editorial photographers make great conference photographers. I found the market and clients very easy to work with both in terms of contract negotiation and on-site collaboration.

To start, check with your business bureau or big conference centers for a list of upcoming conferences and start sending out promos.

I kept one client after I transitioned to editing. Each year their conference is in another city. I fly to a different city every year for a couple of days. Now like a big family reunion.

teach and write……

and, o yea, there’s the Sunday night stripping gig too: "yo, show me the moooooooo-ne-eeeeeeey!: ;)))

b

Hey Jake-Even Clint Eastwood used to dig out swimming pools to supplement his income. And over here the filmaker Johnny Kingdom used to be a gravedigger. Me-I’m digging my own grave by working as a photographer for publications where the rates have’nt gone up in ten years.

After reading all those deployment’s I must add mine… I had a job in public administration which was enough to pay all my bills since, I left my parents home, and doing some freelance photojournalism without worries.
Now am facing a new reality, got unemployed and am aware photography doesn´t pay bills. Already thought to create my own job, perhaps a image agency on the web, but… after 5 minutes googling it came thousands of agencies of all languages and styles… I might confess am a bit lost, right now, and I really don´t know what to do… But am also sure that my future, unfortunately, has to go around photography in order to live. So the solution is getting different job, one which pay our bills and give us some spare time to keep doing what we really love. And never give up!
Like someone once told me, “you can be whatever you want if you know how”
Sorry about all this philosophy :o)

certain things in life you can do without. like everything that doesnt fit in two duffle bags and an F2.

I work at a country club as an assistant caddymaster in the summer to pay for my photography. Winters I used to work at a Discovery Channel store as a holiday manager (unfortunately, Discovery is shutting down all their stores) so this winter is up in the air.

i only earn money from photography (since 98) and it is difficult when invoices are mislaid by accountants.
on the plus side; where i live is cheap and my responsibilities are low.
one shoot a week for a food review in metro paper pays my rent. one mag tends to use me a couple of times a month.. others vairy. i have three or four regular clients who see me okay, in short, and the rest is a bonus.

a couple of regular shoots is all that is needed to then risk time with magazine pitches and setting up more interesting, lower paid work.

Jeez, Bob, was that you?

akaky: yea, I know, the mask with feathers is my professional nomdeplume, so to speak…..but if you dont tell others what you’d witnessed, i wont tell others you were there to witness it! ;)))))

Hi,

Most of my income comes from the chaos that photography’s digital revolution has created. I most consult on digital workflow, printing, camera raw and such. I also work a bit and will soon teach at ICP. I make websites for people. And do some assisting. I photograph and fund my own projects then try to sell them.

Okay, Bob, you can count on me to keep my mouth shut, but I think that other guy’s got a better picture of you than I did.

akaky ;)))))))))))))))))….

the friggin’ digital age and web revolution is killin’ my ass, im supposed to be a “respectable” photog and writer but the photography and art world aint easy to draw a living from, so being an adaptable, creative and totally emotionally-expressive kind of guy, i just riff with the moment :)))))….

but thank god the world’s more open minded than my daddy’s generation ;))))))))

now, if i hadnt put my tool tightly inside my brief, i’d of gotten that strapping shot of how it is you hold your camera ;)))))))))))))))))

cheers bro
bob

For 2006, my income was roughly 80% from travel/corporate assignments, 10% stock photo sales, 5% investments (stocks (the wall street kind), dividends, etc…), and 5% advertising on my site. Basically photography made up almost all of my income. While people keep complaining about the internet revolution, all of my photography income was a result of the internet. Whether that is from clients finding me through google, finding my stock photos through google, using google’s adsense to generate passive income through ads, etc… you see the pattern. I think ICP should make their students read “Who Moved my Cheese?”

Pants down, I have minimal expenses. My car is a piece of junk, I don’t pay rent or a mortgage as I keep my stuff scattered around the world with friends and relatives who are nice enough to put up with me, and I still am reaping the benefits (hotel points, airline miles, etc…) from my previous work as a business consultant. I also have some money saved up from my engineering/consulting days which helped with buying gear to start out with and managing cash flow but I can support myself with my photography alone.

Doesn’t much matter, I love photography. When I was broke and living out of my car, it’s all I did. Now that I came make a living at it is just icing on the cake. You can’t be in it for the money but it pays to apply some business sense to it.

I have enough money to last until the end of my life.
Well, unless I want to buy something of course…
So, I’ve been selling furniture… Not sure it matters if the furniture was mine…

Most of my income nowadays has nothing to do with photography: I’m a professional musician, and also develop content for mobile phones. That pays the bills and bought most of my photography gear…

As Dylan Thomas said, “A poet is someone who works hard at one job so that he is able to work hard at another.”

well, editorial is regular and pays gallery rent, just. Commercial is about 3-40% and adventure travel with high end tour groups about 20%(mostly surf safaris)fills in. Stock is irregular but always a welcome bonus, mostly regional here. And the odd framed print out the gallery which is really an office in disguise This year i have started weddings- beach stuff in costa rica which is actually fun – for a friend who needs backing up a couple of time s a month. That is now getting more frequent.
I do some writing sometimes, but that is neglible income so far.

Sometimes i get gigs sailing across oceans on sailboats, real nice ones which pays a daily rate as a sailor, gives me access to locations on someone elses dollar and of course i acrue airmiles. In the fall, rainy season in costa rica, i will probably do some boatyard time in new england for a month to pay for a georgia armenia trip in october.

whatever it takes, but mostly it involves being flexible and shooting whatever you paid for.

Erica:

When I see a post like yours – the first thing I do is check their LS gallery or website to see what kind of work they do and how good it is.

Your work is really nice so that is not the reason you aren’t working enough to pay your bills – so I have to ask what are you doing to market yourself and find clients – do you do any active marketing / self-promotion? Personally I suck at this – I don’t like this aspect of being a freelancer – but I acknowledge the necessity of having to do it and suck it up – as those who don’t will fail!

Do you have an agent for both editorial AND corpoarte work? Do you have a searchable and publicly accessible archive of your work online where photo buyers can find and license your images?
If not you should look into getting a photoshelter account. http://www.photoshelter.com

I work with a press agency in Brussels who feed me local editorial assignmenst and who also diffuse my editorial / documentary work around the world and I work with two corporate agents in the U.S. and I try to find my own editorial and corporate clients and use the marketing and self promotional tools that come with a Photoshelter account to do so.

I don’t know what your aspirations are – but whatever they maybe – you need to keep your dreams alive while at the same time dealing with the realities of the marketplace – the state of our profession – and what your own financial needs are. But in the current climate the best thing any photographer can do is diversify – putting all your eggs in one basket is very risky – that means doing only one type of photography and / or relying heavily on only one or two primary clients.

Generally speaking photographers are horrible business people – and we have only ourselves to blame for the current state of the editorial market – low day rates – work for hire contracts – clients that insist on broad usage rights or copyright buyouts without proper compensation – we all have to learn to just say NO! I am not saying this pertains to you specifically Erica as I have no idea of what your businesses practices are – but I see photographers making bad business decisions all the time and wondering why they can’t make ends meet.

Everybody’s situation is different – this is mine and how I have managed to make a living as a photographer:

I have been working professionally full-time for 23 years. Fifteen years of that was spent as an employee working for various newspapers in the U.S. The last 7 years have been spent working as a freelancer in Europe. So I am relatively new to the freelance game and am learning all the time.

I have a wife who does not work (or better stated – is not gainfully employed – as she works her ass off being a wonderful mother) and 2 young children ages 6 and 3 – a mortgage – car payment – health care – blah blah blah. The bottom line is that I need to make at least 5k a month to keep the machine running and so far I am able to make ends meet and still do the occasional documentary project that feeds my soul. 100% of my income is from photography.

Now – how did I get to this point? It didn’t happen overnight and I have modified my business plan to accommodate a changing market.

When I left my cushy albeit routine newspaper gig to move to Europe to freelance full-time (yes people told me I was nuts) I had fantasies of chasing breaking news around the world and wowing the editors at the big news magazines with my amazing photography – HA – boy did I get a rude awakening!

First of all the photo editors at these publications are already working with the best in the business so they aren’t very easily wowed.

Secondly, even with the most extreme cost cutting measures – I found It to be incredibly expensive to send myself to hotspots – as journalistically rewarding as these experiences can be – at some point I had to do some basic accounting and ask myself a simple question – if I spend 5k to go to half way around the world to cover the news story of the moment – can I make my money back PLUS a profit.

This was a sobering dose of reality that tempered the romanticism of it all.

Especially in this digital age of citizen journalism and wanna be photographers willing to give their work away for near to nothing – the answer became clear that unless I was on assignment – with someone else paying my freight – chasing these kinds of stories on my own dime was almost always going to be a loosing proposition. And I had not yet reached the level to be on assignment for the big news magazines – be it lack of talent – not doing the necessary networking and self promotion – getting in the face of the right people – probably a combination of all of the above.

Add to this realization that during my first incursion into Gaza during the height of the Intifada back in 2000 – my wife called to tell me she was pregnant with our first child (who just turned six on Friday).

To put it simply – my priorities changed overnight. As a responsible person I didn’t feel I could be so self absorbed and put my family at risk by squandering money on iffy business propositions such as chasing news around the globe. And I also made a decision that I didn’t want my children growing up without a father or having a dad who couldn’t play ball in the back yard because I lost a limb to an IED. So I now stay away from conflict situations – but still on occasion I find myself going to less than safe places – but I do so with extreme caution and in the safest way possible.

So my professional aspirations changed – always keeping my family foremost in my mind. I will do anything to make sure my family is provided for – as any responsible person would. I am very fortunate that I haven’t had to leave photography to do so or even – God forbid – shoot weddings. :-)

This is not meant to slight those of you who do shoot weddings – some of my best friends shoot weddings on the side – it’s just not for me. Everyone has their personal line in the sand – and this is mine – but don’t get me wrong – I would do it if I absolutely had to – or maybe I would flip burgers instead – but thankfully it has not come to that :-)

Even when I was trying to chase news on a regular basis – I did ordinary editorial assignments. Any freelancer will attest that the most common request from a publication is a portrait assignment – so knowing some basic lighting techniques is a must – and my newspaper background served me well as I found this work relatively easy to do.

Then one day a corporate client called after finding me on the web (and this will speak to how clueless I was) what they wanted was a basic environmental portrait – something I did all the time for my editorial clients at anywhere from €300 – €500 a day – but the money they were offering was 5 to 10 times more – holly shit!!! Basically the same work for a LOT more money – work less – earn more – what a concept!

So, these days I pay the bills by doing about a 50-50 split between editorial and corporate / industrial work. And I try to be smart about the jobs that I accept. I don’t sign work for hire contracts or accept copy right buyouts (sometimes corporate clients demand this – but they are also willing to pay substantially more for the rights).
As a basic rule – a freelance photographer who gives up their copyright is an idiot and doomed for failure. Being an employee is a totally different ball of wax – but a freelancer is paying for everything themselves (healthcare – equipment – car – mobile phone – etc..) the only real tangible thing a freelancer has is their copyright – giving it up without proper compensation is just plain stupid! It is bad business and in-time they will surely fail.

On the occasions that I do accept editorial jobs that don’t pay as much as I would like – which means they are just at or just below my Cost of Doing Business (CDB) – I do them when I know the subject matter has a shelf life. After the client has published the images – I am free to sell the images myself or diffuse them through my agency. And I am almost certain that I will make more money in re-sales than I did on the actual assignment. I apply the same philosophy to “spec” work. I do it when I think the subject matter has a very good chance of selling – or better yet – if I can pre-sell it – otherwise it is just a waste of time and resources.

Now this is not to say that I have given up on my true passion of documentary photography – but now I can use the money I earn doing corporate work to finance documentary projects that are nearer and dearer to my heart and still support my family. Do I wish I was able to make the same money doing only documentary work – sure – but it is just not realistic in the current market place today – there are maybe 100 photographers in the world (and that is probably a generous number) that are making their living solely on documentary work – all of them far more talented than I. Some here may see me as a failure because I have chosen to compromise – some may see me as being somewhat successful because I’m not flipping burgers – it is all in your personal point of view – it matters not to me. The important thing is that I am comfortable with the balance that I have found in my professional and personal life.

One last thing.

I mentioned my CDB – any photographer working as a freelancer must know what their Cost of Doing Business is – if you have already done this and you know what your CDB is than disregard the following – but if you haven’t – then I highly recommend that you go through this exercise as it will help you determine what kind of clients you need to target to make the money that you need to live.

Read this primer here:

http://www.nppa.org/professional_development/business_practices/cdb/index.html

And use the CDB calculator here:

http://www.nppa.org/professional_development/business_practices/cdb/cdbcalc.cfm

And as mentioned in other threads here and elsewhere – a good book to read is
“Best Business Practices for Photographers” by John Harrington

I hope this helps and best of luck!

Jock

hi Jock, thank you for the thoughtful response, and the kind words. My post was as much a ‘public service’ as personal inquiry; I’ve come to feel the familial at LS and was thinking for others as well. I’ve only just begun to try to make money with photography, a couple of months, so I was as well seeking perspective. Yours is very helpful – and though I haven’t done much of what you outline, I will..

Can you, or Mark or whoever is in the know, speak to how one goes about getting corporate work? I understand the editorial path, but how do you source potential corporate or ad clients? Does it come back to having an agent? If so, how do you find an agent that is appropriate for that kind of work?

thanks a milllion, e

Jock and everyone else on this post. Thank you. I am currently struggling with these very issues, and have found good information here – especially in Jock’s post.

I worked for several years on staff of mid size newspapers – and that paid my bills and gave me the opportunity to do what I love, but it never allowed me to save any money – to do what I really want to do – long term documentary projects. I am now have the classic problem of being free from a full time job and other responsibilities, so I can start working on some projects – but I don’t have the funds to pay the bills. As usual, I am not letting that get in my way. Basically, I try to live on very little. Having served in the Peace Corps, I learned that it is possible to live without spending much money – one of the benefits of Peace Corps service!
I think that with tools like this (LS) and other internet things listed on this post we as photographers have way more solutions to our needs than we did before the digital age. It has created more opportunities – and more competition too, but competition can be a good thing. Through the internet you can reach far more viewers than ever before. The question is – how do you profit from this? Would be interested in thoughts along these lines.
Again, thanks to everyone for their posts on this thread.
Oh, and look at my gallery – and let me know what you think. I don’t get much in the way of feedback these days.
R.

Erica,
just to add my two cents to Mark’s wise comments, you might start by taking your portfolio to graphic designers, and see if there is any way you can partner with them on a subcontractor or referral basis.
Some of them specialize in annual reports, but do not have the talent to produce the photos of the executives of the client firms.
Although your cut may not be quite as good, this might save you a lot of leg work and bring some steady income.

Annuals are a tough biz to break into – you compete with commercial photogs and the fabulous gear they own. Finding a rep is an expensive proposition. Often, the photog needs to pony up cash for the initial advertising blitz. One seminar I attended the amount the photog needs to have was +$30,000. Gulp.

sending out promos/books -
Mid-size design agencies – 20 people and smaller – are good places to start shopping a book. My experience (+ my husband who is an art director at ad agencies), is the agencies that are large enough to have art buyers = you compete with the heavy hitting commercial photogs. The talent/skill isn’t the issue – the gear, post-production and studio employees and all the customer service that provides is the competition. So initially stick with smaller agencies as places to find business within 6 months to a year.

Sky is the limit so try for big agencies. No reason LSers can’t all be shooting Nike campaigns. But some money sources are easier to chase down than others.

Good thing about small – they often pick up client types like private schools, associations, smaller business – clients with first-time branding needs. With no established brand, easier to take a chance with a first-time photographer (versus an established commercial shooter with lots of annual report covers to their name).

I’ll echo what Jock said – split the editorial and commercial. Work up to the ratio. When I was working I had a 60-40 split. 60% being commercial. The times we could jump on my husband’s health insurance (taking it off my business insurance), I could go to a 50-50 split.

Good tip someone gave me – hire someone to make all cold calls for you. I hired a friend for $10 a hour. She did the research. She made the appts. for me. Some photogs don’t mind all that calling. I never liked cold calling. I made up a call sheet for her – questions that I needed for my database. She would email/send me the sheets after she was finished. In one year, I probably paid her about $250. This was my way of getting around the $30,000 agent fee : )

http://www.ceoexpress.com – great links to business articles and know-how.
Design links – to track down names of agencies in your area (USA):
http://www.aiga.org/
(art directors club in washington DC) http://www.adcmw.org/
http://www.aaf.org/club/index.html
(local adclub resource page in DC): http://www.dcadclub.com/content.asp?contentid=421

Another “wife” ansewr…

Michal, what Alexandre meant was that he has a wife and she pays the bills :) and two young girls. cheers

good topic! i started photography as a hobby while having a full time job, used my holiday to go traveling and take some shots. Got a bit serious and now use my holiday to do short assignments – doesn’t pay very well at all.

luckily my job pays quite well but it is a 9 to 5…and dead boring, all i think about is photography – imagine the torture when you can only do your passion for 25(ish) days a year! the plan is to work a bit longer and save a bit to fall back on, quit and do assignments full time. Luckily, in London, if you can type or do excel, you can get temp jobs pretty easily that pay quite well. i think i will end up working something like two months on, 2 months off and still be comfortable, but doing what i love most of the time… this may change seeing i’m getting married next January…

Good luck!

Mark:

Thanks – I am a bit too self conscious for my own good and always wonder how my words will be received when I share personal information and experiences in a public forum – which is probably why I don’t do it very often. Anyway, I am glad it was taken as it was intended and thanks again for saying so!

Erica:

You are most welcome and what I wrote was intended both for you (since you asked the question) – and also as a public service – so we are on the same page :-) There is a lot of posing that goes on on these message boards and I just wanted to lay out an honest account of how my freelance career has evolved and what considerations I have to deal with when deciding if I should zig or zag – with the intent of helping others here who are dealing with the same sort of issues.

I wish public forums like this existed when I was learning the ropes – what am I saying – in some respects I am still learning the ropes! :-)

As for your question about corporate agents – if it were me I would start with doing a google search for corporate photo agents and see what pops up and follow the bread crumbs from there. I wish I had a better answer for you. In my case the agents I work with found me – so I guess I was fortunate in that respect. Part of this is about location. There are a ton of corporate agents in NY – the problem is is that there are also a ton of talented photographers in NY all looking for work – just like you. So you need to be a bit aggressive since it is a buyers market. You also might consider finding an agent in LA and an agent in Chicago – not so you can travel to those cities necessarily – (which is always a possibility) – but because a west coast or midwest company may have an office in or near NY and they may need your services.

Keep in mind that most agents take a healthy percentage 30-40% of the assignment fee – so it will behoove you to find your own clients and work with them directly. I have considered buying a subscription to AdBase but have not yet done so. It is supposed to be the mac daddy of mailing lists for photo buyers / art directors and design houses who deal with corporate and editorial photography. It is expensive – but as they say – you gotta spend money to make money :-) My hesitation is due to my location as AdBase is U.S. centric and I am only interested in U.S. companies who have foreign interests – so I am not sure it would be money well spent for me – but if I were in the U.S. – especially if I were near a major metropolitan area – I would definately spring for a one year subscription and start a strategic email / promo card campaign. One corporate gig will pay for the AdBase subscription so it is kind of a no-brainer if you are in the states.

One of my agents works on a 35% commission but the fees he negotiates are usually quite good so I have no problem with his cut. The other agent works on a different method – they are more of a facilitator – arranging everything from photography to a graphic designer to getting the annual report or brochure printed etc…
These people come to me with a job and ask how much I will charge for it – and if they have a budget they ask if I can do it for X – I see if it falls inside what I think is a fair price for the usage and the work involved and I either say yes or take a pass. They then add their fee on top of my fee – so I receive 100% of whatever fee I have stipulated. Needless to say I enjoy hearing their voice when I pick up the phone :-)

Like I stated earlier – I am still learning – so I am not familiar with the scenario that Sevans described – and I would be leery of anyone asking me to plunk down 30k so they can represent me ;-) But that’s just me.

Oh and another small yet huge investment a freelancer can make is to buy a copy of FotoQuote which helps you negotiate and determine licensing fees for both stock sales and assignments. The best $150 you can spend on your business.

Richard:

You asked how you can profit from the internet – you kind of answered your own question. You can reach a global audience. In this day and age if anyone is serious about being a professional photographer and doesn’t have their own website I am at a loss for words. (not that this applies to you Richard). It is a basic but essential element in a photographers marketing tool box – not having a website is like not having a business card to hand out.

And I can’t say enough about having a photoshelter account. I have my own domain name and website which is driven by my photoshelter account via the seamless customization option. Prospective clients and repeat customers can view my portfolio – search my archive and license images directly from my website. This kind of functionality would have cost upwards of $50,000 before photoshelter – definitely out of the financial reach of most independent photographers. And I often get requests from prospective clients asking me to send them a “tailor made portfolio” for a specific job. With photoshleter I can quickly throw together a gallery of images and send the client an invitation to it – no muss no fuss. It looks very professional and it is a huge time saver.

Adbase, of course! I think I first need to shoot a few images that are more representative of a corporate image..so much to do! many thanks..

jock -respect

Hey Michal, as Miguel said, I have a wife who pays the bills and I have two small girls, so I know what I’m telling about…

I don’t know why the heck did you assumed from my small sentence that I was being cynical and throwing stones???

I hope it’s because after seeing my youthful appearance in my profile photo, you assumed that this almost teenager could never be the father of two.

What I was saying is than in my case is ALSO my wife who helps keeping things on track…

Chillout man, life is short.

I dont pay them, just skip the country and find a place without extradition proceedings,so here I am in Syria-for now.

Jock I show to you my respect also! Great advices, thanks!

Wow, this has been a really informative and wonderful thread so far! Thank you all for your contributions and thank you, Erica, for starting this discussion! :)

Agreed. A very open discussion with some great insights from those more experienced is refreshing and reassuring.

Reading some of the posts above makes banging my head in to this brick wall seem like a team event rather than a one man job.

Thank you all.
Andy.

weddings.

I’ve got several revenue streams…the first is writing and photograpy. I write and shoot for most of the boxing magazines in the world (there are only around 6 worth working for) and a weekly newspaper. I also do a monthly travel piece and whatever work I can drum up. That doesn’t generate enough to live the way I want so I also make money from: exporting goods from here in Thailand and placing an occasional bet on boxing. My wife makes a little too so all combined, somehow, we manage to pay the bills and stash a little (not as much as I’d like).

Erica
bought my first camera in 2000. quit my job in little ol grand island nebraska in 2001 and went to new york to be a photographer.

I was having this discussion the other day with a few artists…telling war stories…..you know.. .no insurance, starving, what it would be like to own a pair of underwear again someday. I was at the part in my story where I was showing everyone the holes in my mouth where teeth had once been….when one of the artists nearby working on a sculpture shared with me that she just couldnt stop thinking about going to the grocery store and buying a head of lettuce and some salad dressing. I asked her why and she said..”cause Im hungry and I dont have any food or money”. I pulled out 7 dollars I had found earlier that day and gave it to her. I thought she was going to cry. I told her …”dont thank me…its not my 7 dollars….I found it”.

I wish I could think of my work that way… my photos …merely found…and shared.

Its not easy as you already know. This deal…will test you…like no other.

I chose a path ..where I made very few compromises and have certainly paid the price. I suppose I just wanted to be great….you know. I wanted to be the best. I wanted my name to be in the books a 100 years from now.

I woke up today and found a email in my inbox declining my pro bono offer to shoot some ad imagery for a new independent film theater in town.

I got my ass up and went to North O and hung out with an old guy that remembers getting paid $1.15 for a hard days work back in the 60s down in Mississippi. He lives in a neighborhood where all the houses have boards for windows and people have never seen a white boy with a camera hanging out on their block. He told to me to come back on Thursday to shoot him and his little watermelon stand …after hes cleaned up some trash in his yard and planted some flowers.

I likened it to planting flowers in the middle of hell.

I suspect…thats the only way out for him………or any of us.

My advice?

Plant flowers.

Share them.

Whatever is left of you…is who you will become.

Sincerely, Timothy Keen

seriously, some good ad