How do you pay the bills?

Digging holes paid better than photography does at the moment. But NEVER… EVER will i go back to that back braking and at times demoralising work!

In regards to the other post by Jason… I know its hard, I understand that the industry stinks at the moment and that the future at times seems bleak. But think about this; how do you feel when you are in the moment of taking an image, when you are shooting and creating?? Do you feel alive? Does your heart rate go up? Do you feel on top of the world after you’ve made a good image?? I know I do. Think about how lucky we are to be in such a position, to be working in a creative industry where we have the ability to do so. It definately beats a 9-5 average sit in traffic for 2 hrs and work in an office type job, it also beats digging fucking holes in tropical heat until you think you’re going to faint.

Me, i break into stuff. I have been a legal hacker since 1995 and continue to work with clients on breaking all manners of software/web applications/networks and other juicy bits so that the malicious hackers don’t get there first. The benefit of doing that is I get a healthy balance at the end of the month and also end up persuing projects and throwing obscene abouts of cash and time into something i have yet to make any money from.

My advice to anyone joining this club, make sure you have a reliable source of income. There is nothing worse than trying to be a shooter and not having any cash.

Having any job helps when you decide to get a Leica, hell I might even need to become a coke dealer soon just to afford the damn lenses!

Since May 2006 I’ve been photo freelancing fulltime, both in USA and Sweden. I get by, but but can’t really go on luxury vacations, can’t buy new expensive lenses etc. Yet. But on the other hand, I get sent on assignments in other parts of the world, so I always take a few extra “holidays” days there. Like in Florida.

This spring, I figured that summer time might be hard times for editorial freelancers like me, so I applied for (and got) a 6 week-summer-job at a major Swedish newspaper as a “photoshopper” which will be both heaven (steady income, good experience, holidayweekends) and hell (9 to 5, work for other people, office work during sunny days).

But overall, I pay my own bills and everything else with photography.. I can afford a night out sometimes, or a new pair of shoes. But it ain’t La Vida Loca. Yet. :)

My conference niche allowed me to say no to editorial assignments with bad contracts. Throughout my career, I gave myself one bad contract a year if the work was worth it. My conference income let me keep my focus on retaining rights after my one-bad-contract allowance was used up.

Five biz pros: low-overhead (no studio costs or additional gear needed); minimal post-production (unlike weddings which I never did because of the office time); easy to keep copyright ownership since conference photos are used maybe three times: on web soon after, annual report and maybe next year as promo to next annual conference; days rates are commercial not editorial rates which, depending on your market and hours, can put you over $1,000 a day; usually you have at least a week or two heads-up for a shoot date.

One con: grip and grins can be part of the scene. I kept those to a minimum. Only time seem useful is at any receptions or cocktail time. For me, helps break up the evening.

No disrespect to conference photogs around the world, but the market is not awash with great shooters. The conference scene is small like all markets. My name was referred a lot because editorial photographers make great conference photographers. I found the market and clients very easy to work with both in terms of contract negotiation and on-site collaboration.

To start, check with your business bureau or big conference centers for a list of upcoming conferences and start sending out promos.

I kept one client after I transitioned to editing. Each year their conference is in another city. I fly to a different city every year for a couple of days. Now like a big family reunion.

and, o yea, there’s the Sunday night stripping gig too: "yo, show me the moooooooo-ne-eeeeeeey!: ;)))

b

a couple of regular shoots is all that is needed to then risk time with magazine pitches and setting up more interesting, lower paid work.

Most of my income comes from the chaos that photography’s digital revolution has created. I most consult on digital workflow, printing, camera raw and such. I also work a bit and will soon teach at ICP. I make websites for people. And do some assisting. I photograph and fund my own projects then try to sell them.

Okay, Bob, you can count on me to keep my mouth shut, but I think that other guy’s got a better picture of you than I did.

the friggin’ digital age and web revolution is killin’ my ass, im supposed to be a “respectable” photog and writer but the photography and art world aint easy to draw a living from, so being an adaptable, creative and totally emotionally-expressive kind of guy, i just riff with the moment :)))))….

but thank god the world’s more open minded than my daddy’s generation ;))))))))

now, if i hadnt put my tool tightly inside my brief, i’d of gotten that strapping shot of how it is you hold your camera ;)))))))))))))))))

cheers bro
bob

Pants down, I have minimal expenses. My car is a piece of junk, I don’t pay rent or a mortgage as I keep my stuff scattered around the world with friends and relatives who are nice enough to put up with me, and I still am reaping the benefits (hotel points, airline miles, etc…) from my previous work as a business consultant. I also have some money saved up from my engineering/consulting days which helped with buying gear to start out with and managing cash flow but I can support myself with my photography alone.

Doesn’t much matter, I love photography. When I was broke and living out of my car, it’s all I did. Now that I came make a living at it is just icing on the cake. You can’t be in it for the money but it pays to apply some business sense to it.

Sometimes i get gigs sailing across oceans on sailboats, real nice ones which pays a daily rate as a sailor, gives me access to locations on someone elses dollar and of course i acrue airmiles. In the fall, rainy season in costa rica, i will probably do some boatyard time in new england for a month to pay for a georgia armenia trip in october.

whatever it takes, but mostly it involves being flexible and shooting whatever you paid for.

When I see a post like yours – the first thing I do is check their LS gallery or website to see what kind of work they do and how good it is.

Your work is really nice so that is not the reason you aren’t working enough to pay your bills – so I have to ask what are you doing to market yourself and find clients – do you do any active marketing / self-promotion? Personally I suck at this – I don’t like this aspect of being a freelancer – but I acknowledge the necessity of having to do it and suck it up – as those who don’t will fail!

Do you have an agent for both editorial AND corpoarte work? Do you have a searchable and publicly accessible archive of your work online where photo buyers can find and license your images?
If not you should look into getting a photoshelter account. http://www.photoshelter.com

I work with a press agency in Brussels who feed me local editorial assignmenst and who also diffuse my editorial / documentary work around the world and I work with two corporate agents in the U.S. and I try to find my own editorial and corporate clients and use the marketing and self promotional tools that come with a Photoshelter account to do so.

I don’t know what your aspirations are – but whatever they maybe – you need to keep your dreams alive while at the same time dealing with the realities of the marketplace – the state of our profession – and what your own financial needs are. But in the current climate the best thing any photographer can do is diversify – putting all your eggs in one basket is very risky – that means doing only one type of photography and / or relying heavily on only one or two primary clients.

Generally speaking photographers are horrible business people – and we have only ourselves to blame for the current state of the editorial market – low day rates – work for hire contracts – clients that insist on broad usage rights or copyright buyouts without proper compensation – we all have to learn to just say NO! I am not saying this pertains to you specifically Erica as I have no idea of what your businesses practices are – but I see photographers making bad business decisions all the time and wondering why they can’t make ends meet.

Everybody’s situation is different – this is mine and how I have managed to make a living as a photographer:

I have been working professionally full-time for 23 years. Fifteen years of that was spent as an employee working for various newspapers in the U.S. The last 7 years have been spent working as a freelancer in Europe. So I am relatively new to the freelance game and am learning all the time.

I have a wife who does not work (or better stated – is not gainfully employed – as she works her ass off being a wonderful mother) and 2 young children ages 6 and 3 – a mortgage – car payment – health care – blah blah blah. The bottom line is that I need to make at least 5k a month to keep the machine running and so far I am able to make ends meet and still do the occasional documentary project that feeds my soul. 100% of my income is from photography.

Now – how did I get to this point? It didn’t happen overnight and I have modified my business plan to accommodate a changing market.

When I left my cushy albeit routine newspaper gig to move to Europe to freelance full-time (yes people told me I was nuts) I had fantasies of chasing breaking news around the world and wowing the editors at the big news magazines with my amazing photography – HA – boy did I get a rude awakening!

First of all the photo editors at these publications are already working with the best in the business so they aren’t very easily wowed.

Secondly, even with the most extreme cost cutting measures – I found It to be incredibly expensive to send myself to hotspots – as journalistically rewarding as these experiences can be – at some point I had to do some basic accounting and ask myself a simple question – if I spend 5k to go to half way around the world to cover the news story of the moment – can I make my money back PLUS a profit.

This was a sobering dose of reality that tempered the romanticism of it all.

Especially in this digital age of citizen journalism and wanna be photographers willing to give their work away for near to nothing – the answer became clear that unless I was on assignment – with someone else paying my freight – chasing these kinds of stories on my own dime was almost always going to be a loosing proposition. And I had not yet reached the level to be on assignment for the big news magazines – be it lack of talent – not doing the necessary networking and self promotion – getting in the face of the right people – probably a combination of all of the above.

Add to this realization that during my first incursion into Gaza during the height of the Intifada back in 2000 – my wife called to tell me she was pregnant with our first child (who just turned six on Friday).

To put it simply – my priorities changed overnight. As a responsible person I didn’t feel I could be so self absorbed and put my family at risk by squandering money on iffy business propositions such as chasing news around the globe. And I also made a decision that I didn’t want my children growing up without a father or having a dad who couldn’t play ball in the back yard because I lost a limb to an IED. So I now stay away from conflict situations – but still on occasion I find myself going to less than safe places – but I do so with extreme caution and in the safest way possible.

So my professional aspirations changed – always keeping my family foremost in my mind. I will do anything to make sure my family is provided for – as any responsible person would. I am very fortunate that I haven’t had to leave photography to do so or even – God forbid – shoot weddings. :-)

This is not meant to slight those of you who do shoot weddings – some of my best friends shoot weddings on the side – it’s just not for me. Everyone has their personal line in the sand – and this is mine – but don’t get me wrong – I would do it if I absolutely had to – or maybe I would flip burgers instead – but thankfully it has not come to that :-)

Even when I was trying to chase news on a regular basis – I did ordinary editorial assignments. Any freelancer will attest that the most common request from a publication is a portrait assignment – so knowing some basic lighting techniques is a must – and my newspaper background served me well as I found this work relatively easy to do.

Then one day a corporate client called after finding me on the web (and this will speak to how clueless I was) what they wanted was a basic environmental portrait – something I did all the time for my editorial clients at anywhere from €300 – €500 a day – but the money they were offering was 5 to 10 times more – holly shit!!! Basically the same work for a LOT more money – work less – earn more – what a concept!

So, these days I pay the bills by doing about a 50-50 split between editorial and corporate / industrial work. And I try to be smart about the jobs that I accept. I don’t sign work for hire contracts or accept copy right buyouts (sometimes corporate clients demand this – but they are also willing to pay substantially more for the rights).
As a basic rule – a freelance photographer who gives up their copyright is an idiot and doomed for failure. Being an employee is a totally different ball of wax – but a freelancer is paying for everything themselves (healthcare – equipment – car – mobile phone – etc..) the only real tangible thing a freelancer has is their copyright – giving it up without proper compensation is just plain stupid! It is bad business and in-time they will surely fail.

On the occasions that I do accept editorial jobs that don’t pay as much as I would like – which means they are just at or just below my Cost of Doing Business (CDB) – I do them when I know the subject matter has a shelf life. After the client has published the images – I am free to sell the images myself or diffuse them through my agency. And I am almost certain that I will make more money in re-sales than I did on the actual assignment. I apply the same philosophy to “spec” work. I do it when I think the subject matter has a very good chance of selling – or better yet – if I can pre-sell it – otherwise it is just a waste of time and resources.

Now this is not to say that I have given up on my true passion of documentary photography – but now I can use the money I earn doing corporate work to finance documentary projects that are nearer and dearer to my heart and still support my family. Do I wish I was able to make the same money doing only documentary work – sure – but it is just not realistic in the current market place today – there are maybe 100 photographers in the world (and that is probably a generous number) that are making their living solely on documentary work – all of them far more talented than I. Some here may see me as a failure because I have chosen to compromise – some may see me as being somewhat successful because I’m not flipping burgers – it is all in your personal point of view – it matters not to me. The important thing is that I am comfortable with the balance that I have found in my professional and personal life.

One last thing.

I mentioned my CDB – any photographer working as a freelancer must know what their Cost of Doing Business is – if you have already done this and you know what your CDB is than disregard the following – but if you haven’t – then I highly recommend that you go through this exercise as it will help you determine what kind of clients you need to target to make the money that you need to live.

Read this primer here:

http://www.nppa.org/professional_development/business_practices/cdb/index.html

And use the CDB calculator here:

http://www.nppa.org/professional_development/business_practices/cdb/cdbcalc.cfm

And as mentioned in other threads here and elsewhere – a good book to read is
“Best Business Practices for Photographers” by John Harrington

I hope this helps and best of luck!

Jock

Can you, or Mark or whoever is in the know, speak to how one goes about getting corporate work? I understand the editorial path, but how do you source potential corporate or ad clients? Does it come back to having an agent? If so, how do you find an agent that is appropriate for that kind of work?

thanks a milllion, e

I worked for several years on staff of mid size newspapers – and that paid my bills and gave me the opportunity to do what I love, but it never allowed me to save any money – to do what I really want to do – long term documentary projects. I am now have the classic problem of being free from a full time job and other responsibilities, so I can start working on some projects – but I don’t have the funds to pay the bills. As usual, I am not letting that get in my way. Basically, I try to live on very little. Having served in the Peace Corps, I learned that it is possible to live without spending much money – one of the benefits of Peace Corps service!
I think that with tools like this (LS) and other internet things listed on this post we as photographers have way more solutions to our needs than we did before the digital age. It has created more opportunities – and more competition too, but competition can be a good thing. Through the internet you can reach far more viewers than ever before. The question is – how do you profit from this? Would be interested in thoughts along these lines.
Again, thanks to everyone for their posts on this thread.
Oh, and look at my gallery – and let me know what you think. I don’t get much in the way of feedback these days.
R.

sending out promos/books -
Mid-size design agencies – 20 people and smaller – are good places to start shopping a book. My experience (+ my husband who is an art director at ad agencies), is the agencies that are large enough to have art buyers = you compete with the heavy hitting commercial photogs. The talent/skill isn’t the issue – the gear, post-production and studio employees and all the customer service that provides is the competition. So initially stick with smaller agencies as places to find business within 6 months to a year.

Sky is the limit so try for big agencies. No reason LSers can’t all be shooting Nike campaigns. But some money sources are easier to chase down than others.

Good thing about small – they often pick up client types like private schools, associations, smaller business – clients with first-time branding needs. With no established brand, easier to take a chance with a first-time photographer (versus an established commercial shooter with lots of annual report covers to their name).

I’ll echo what Jock said – split the editorial and commercial. Work up to the ratio. When I was working I had a 60-40 split. 60% being commercial. The times we could jump on my husband’s health insurance (taking it off my business insurance), I could go to a 50-50 split.

Good tip someone gave me – hire someone to make all cold calls for you. I hired a friend for $10 a hour. She did the research. She made the appts. for me. Some photogs don’t mind all that calling. I never liked cold calling. I made up a call sheet for her – questions that I needed for my database. She would email/send me the sheets after she was finished. In one year, I probably paid her about $250. This was my way of getting around the $30,000 agent fee : )

http://www.ceoexpress.com – great links to business articles and know-how.
Design links – to track down names of agencies in your area (USA):
http://www.aiga.org/
(art directors club in washington DC) http://www.adcmw.org/
http://www.aaf.org/club/index.html
(local adclub resource page in DC): http://www.dcadclub.com/content.asp?contentid=421

luckily my job pays quite well but it is a 9 to 5…and dead boring, all i think about is photography – imagine the torture when you can only do your passion for 25(ish) days a year! the plan is to work a bit longer and save a bit to fall back on, quit and do assignments full time. Luckily, in London, if you can type or do excel, you can get temp jobs pretty easily that pay quite well. i think i will end up working something like two months on, 2 months off and still be comfortable, but doing what i love most of the time… this may change seeing i’m getting married next January…

Good luck!

Thanks – I am a bit too self conscious for my own good and always wonder how my words will be received when I share personal information and experiences in a public forum – which is probably why I don’t do it very often. Anyway, I am glad it was taken as it was intended and thanks again for saying so!

Erica:

You are most welcome and what I wrote was intended both for you (since you asked the question) – and also as a public service – so we are on the same page :-) There is a lot of posing that goes on on these message boards and I just wanted to lay out an honest account of how my freelance career has evolved and what considerations I have to deal with when deciding if I should zig or zag – with the intent of helping others here who are dealing with the same sort of issues.

I wish public forums like this existed when I was learning the ropes – what am I saying – in some respects I am still learning the ropes! :-)

As for your question about corporate agents – if it were me I would start with doing a google search for corporate photo agents and see what pops up and follow the bread crumbs from there. I wish I had a better answer for you. In my case the agents I work with found me – so I guess I was fortunate in that respect. Part of this is about location. There are a ton of corporate agents in NY – the problem is is that there are also a ton of talented photographers in NY all looking for work – just like you. So you need to be a bit aggressive since it is a buyers market. You also might consider finding an agent in LA and an agent in Chicago – not so you can travel to those cities necessarily – (which is always a possibility) – but because a west coast or midwest company may have an office in or near NY and they may need your services.

Keep in mind that most agents take a healthy percentage 30-40% of the assignment fee – so it will behoove you to find your own clients and work with them directly. I have considered buying a subscription to AdBase but have not yet done so. It is supposed to be the mac daddy of mailing lists for photo buyers / art directors and design houses who deal with corporate and editorial photography. It is expensive – but as they say – you gotta spend money to make money :-) My hesitation is due to my location as AdBase is U.S. centric and I am only interested in U.S. companies who have foreign interests – so I am not sure it would be money well spent for me – but if I were in the U.S. – especially if I were near a major metropolitan area – I would definately spring for a one year subscription and start a strategic email / promo card campaign. One corporate gig will pay for the AdBase subscription so it is kind of a no-brainer if you are in the states.

One of my agents works on a 35% commission but the fees he negotiates are usually quite good so I have no problem with his cut. The other agent works on a different method – they are more of a facilitator – arranging everything from photography to a graphic designer to getting the annual report or brochure printed etc…
These people come to me with a job and ask how much I will charge for it – and if they have a budget they ask if I can do it for X – I see if it falls inside what I think is a fair price for the usage and the work involved and I either say yes or take a pass. They then add their fee on top of my fee – so I receive 100% of whatever fee I have stipulated. Needless to say I enjoy hearing their voice when I pick up the phone :-)

Like I stated earlier – I am still learning – so I am not familiar with the scenario that Sevans described – and I would be leery of anyone asking me to plunk down 30k so they can represent me ;-) But that’s just me.

Oh and another small yet huge investment a freelancer can make is to buy a copy of FotoQuote which helps you negotiate and determine licensing fees for both stock sales and assignments. The best $150 you can spend on your business.

Richard:

You asked how you can profit from the internet – you kind of answered your own question. You can reach a global audience. In this day and age if anyone is serious about being a professional photographer and doesn’t have their own website I am at a loss for words. (not that this applies to you Richard). It is a basic but essential element in a photographers marketing tool box – not having a website is like not having a business card to hand out.

And I can’t say enough about having a photoshelter account. I have my own domain name and website which is driven by my photoshelter account via the seamless customization option. Prospective clients and repeat customers can view my portfolio – search my archive and license images directly from my website. This kind of functionality would have cost upwards of $50,000 before photoshelter – definitely out of the financial reach of most independent photographers. And I often get requests from prospective clients asking me to send them a “tailor made portfolio” for a specific job. With photoshleter I can quickly throw together a gallery of images and send the client an invitation to it – no muss no fuss. It looks very professional and it is a huge time saver.

I don’t know why the heck did you assumed from my small sentence that I was being cynical and throwing stones???

I hope it’s because after seeing my youthful appearance in my profile photo, you assumed that this almost teenager could never be the father of two.

What I was saying is than in my case is ALSO my wife who helps keeping things on track…

Chillout man, life is short.

Reading some of the posts above makes banging my head in to this brick wall seem like a team event rather than a one man job.

Thank you all.
Andy.

I was having this discussion the other day with a few artists…telling war stories…..you know.. .no insurance, starving, what it would be like to own a pair of underwear again someday. I was at the part in my story where I was showing everyone the holes in my mouth where teeth had once been….when one of the artists nearby working on a sculpture shared with me that she just couldnt stop thinking about going to the grocery store and buying a head of lettuce and some salad dressing. I asked her why and she said..”cause Im hungry and I dont have any food or money”. I pulled out 7 dollars I had found earlier that day and gave it to her. I thought she was going to cry. I told her …”dont thank me…its not my 7 dollars….I found it”.

I wish I could think of my work that way… my photos …merely found…and shared.

Its not easy as you already know. This deal…will test you…like no other.

I chose a path ..where I made very few compromises and have certainly paid the price. I suppose I just wanted to be great….you know. I wanted to be the best. I wanted my name to be in the books a 100 years from now.

I woke up today and found a email in my inbox declining my pro bono offer to shoot some ad imagery for a new independent film theater in town.

I got my ass up and went to North O and hung out with an old guy that remembers getting paid $1.15 for a hard days work back in the 60s down in Mississippi. He lives in a neighborhood where all the houses have boards for windows and people have never seen a white boy with a camera hanging out on their block. He told to me to come back on Thursday to shoot him and his little watermelon stand …after hes cleaned up some trash in his yard and planted some flowers.

I likened it to planting flowers in the middle of hell.

I suspect…thats the only way out for him………or any of us.

My advice?

Plant flowers.

Share them.

Whatever is left of you…is who you will become.

Sincerely, Timothy Keen

couple of other things:

“Change is your best friend. The more expensive it is to make a change, the less likely you’ll make it. And if your competitors can change faster than you, you’re at a huge disadvantage. If change gets too expensive, you’re dead.”

“The leaner you are, the easier it is to change. The more massive an object, the more energy is required to change its direction. It’s as true in the business world as it is in the physical world.”

this is a great thread… for a little while was lucky enough to have a bit of a cushion, but that
changed early this year with unexpected surgery and
medical expenses, overnight back to the previous
state of imaginative money earning.

i’ve started looking for other ways also.. getting
back into graphic design, selling items from here..
had to sell some of my books just to buy food recently. i think many creatives are bad business people, and the fact that when you’re starting out it’s very difficult to get work with established clients, they can pick and chose who they want.

hunger is a very motivating factor.. when you feel comfortable and there’s no hunger around you don’t make as much effort. ditto responsibilty for others. when the pressure’s on is when you start taking action.

touching story about the 7 dollars… i just gave away a piece of furniture to an old man so he could sell it. i’ve managed to stock up on some food for now. he looked like he needed the money more than i did.

good karma helps.

Walt

Sure it may be a slog of a job, super long hours, jetlag and little sleep but the pay is acutally quite good. Most assistants I know are making around $300/day which pays the bills and can turn into a tidy little sum if you hook up with a month long gig travelling the world on someone else’s dime.

Beyond the pay there are so many reasons why assisting as a career move is one of the best things you can do, fistly there is all that you learn about the craft, lighting being on of the biggest but also you learn how to deal with clients, how to market yourself, how to be organised and most of all how to run a photography business that turns a profit and can actually make you, heaven forbid, rich!. At the same time your getting your face and name known amoungst the right people. My best contacts for work have come from assisting. Art directors I get to talking to almost always offer me the chance to show them my work, even if all I get out of it is a critque of my work then its still a major bonus. All my make up artsit, stylist, art department, etc contacts have come through photographers I’ve worked with. Also once a photographer become comfortable working with you and you’ve created a bond of some sorts many of them will do almost anything to help you out and try to get your own career kick started, letting you use equipment, passing over unused film/polaroids, letting you use their studio and so on…

Even for someone only interested in photojournalism I would still 100% recommend commercial assisting as a side gig to pay the bills while you are starting out. Once commercial gig a month will certainly help the bank ballance while you get yourself sorted.

For Erica also, commercial and editorial are not so different in the approach you can make towards getting work. Rather than hitting up magazines editors day in day out looking for work I talk to anybody and everybody, nearly every company out there has a need for photography in some way and (especially the small and medium sized ones) they more often than not have no idea how to go about approaching one. Someone with your talents Erica, you could do really well as a good portrait photographers are still in really strong demand.

As forthe original question, well I have a wife and a 1 1/2 year old. Up till now I’ve never had a full time job to support my photography. My wife doesn’t work and its up to me to pay for everything. I cant go running to anyone if we run out of cash so Im really feeling the pressure at the moment. Last year I was doing really well, making good money stringing regularly for an agency, shooting my own commercial projects and on the side doing photo production work (location hunting, casting, assisting etc) for commercial jobs but then the agency sold out to Getty and the well ran dry. I had my hands in a lot of baskets and it all seemd to be going so well until then. One stream of income died and Im struggling to find the right thing to fill that hole of regular steady cash flowing in. Im doing more and more production work but have fallen behind on my rent for the first time in a long time and am really finding it tough.

Thinking to the future about my little one and school and all that stuff its really now or never to make a huge push to get my career into full flight or I’ll too be looking for a day job. Photography aint easy but it is fun!

Otherwise, I work mostly as a roving webbie for an environmental charity, and do some web publishing work for some businesses. I’ve got a few loyal web clients who see me through when times are hard.

The way I see it – if I spend even 1/3 of my year doing work I love (I’ve been in Antarctic and Alaska already this year) then I’m happy to slog along doing less interesting work. I’m not saying that’s my ambition, I’m saying that it’s hard to complain about that – but there is room for improvement.

I agree with you 100% on everything you said. I feel bad about how little I said. LOL. I should send your post to some art school friends of mine that I’ve been trying to get into assisting for a couple of years now who think its only a means to shoot commercially.

Best wishes to you and your family.

From doing that, I have learned something that surprises me: many people calling themselves photojournalists have no concept of the “journalist” part of that word. In our agency we get a whole lot of great pictures through various agencies, and the material includes pictures from WPP winners.

Unfortunately, a lot of these remarkable and fantastic pictures will never be sold.

This has nothing to do with the pictures themselves, but rather the lack of a very important element: TEXT. As a photographer you may not be much bothered about text, but in my experience a story is almost impossible to sell without an accompanying article. Preferably a well written one. That includes comprehensive captions! One would presume “who, what, where” is in the backbone of every photographer, but it turns out, surprisingly, not always to be the case. Which is sad, because a lot of great photos get binned due to the poor quality of the accompanying text and captions. Or lack of any useful information at all.

If you don’t write the text yourself, remember there is probably one or more struggling freelance writer out there for every photographer. Who can’t sell his work, becuase his/her pictures suck… Why not hook up with someone who CAN & WANT to write (unlike most photographers), and together make a complete journalistic product. Probably both pictures and text will benefit from this cooperation and become an even better, more sellable, product. Not only that, you can share expenses and experiences.

Income is not a function of talent. Keep faith in yourself and do not give up.

I was told by a hero of mine in the mid 1980’s in New York, Joel Meyerowitz, not to get the “assistant’s mentality”, meaning never forget that your own work is most important.

He also introduced me to Leica’s.

Show good stories and you can make a living. It isn’t easy but it will come.

Good luck, Erica.

Best,

James Whitlow Delano.

peace.
d

I’ve been lucky to have had a lot of editorial exposure which forced me to develop into a good all-rounder. I have done food, celeb portraits, covers, docy, PR, hard news, travel brochures etc.

But no-one ever said it will be easy.

Now that I’ve been in it for 17 years (11 years solo) I’ve come to realise the importance of relationships with clients. I try to not do a once-off and develop a strong bond with ANY client. Some incredibly boring shoots lead to something very inspiring!

Also, don’t forget what some (most) editors are saying, and that is that they have plenty of photog’s but not many ideas.

As photographers we can’t sleep at night ’cause we have SO MANY ideas….Well, pitch, pitch and pitch! You WILL stike an assignment that way.

Also, don’t pull your nose up for any shoot and think it’s beneath your status! If you REALLY don’t want to do the shoot but not tick off the client, then just quote a little too high….but remain willing to do the job!

I’ve also been VERY lucky having a wife who earns a good salary and I’m also on her medical.

Thre are times when I earn SERIOUS money and then there are times when there just is a zero….

Hang in there and your passion will pull you through!!!!

Regards,
Willem

I recently made the decision to jump ship on the photography department at my school and switch into the design and technology department. More and more of my friends in the real world are fueling their passions by doing web design and multimedia work. I realized that I had maxed out the profitable skill set offered by the photography department, so if they aren’t going to help me take the pictures I want, why stay? Four years of undergraduate photography seems like overkill anyway. I am hoping that with a more diverse skill set, followed up by a jobs assisting, I’ll be on an okay start with paying the bills.

This summer I am burning through my savings. It’s sobering to look at my resume and realize that despite all the fancy names, I don’t have a lot going for me in terms of hirability. I’m grateful for the suggestions that have come up in this thread, both regarding alternate sources of income and thoughts on getting more work in photography. I’ll keep living cheep and get myself a good wife!

another day,

J

Even though we might not like it you need $$$ to live!!! Generating $$$ requires discipline – not something that I would sugggest is generally a strong trait in creatives and those drawn to the visual and aural arts. My game plan is as follows…

By defining things differently new possiblites could open up – “find a need and fill it” – are we photographers only or visual communicators? – is there a photographic niche in my part of the world that is yet to be owned? – once I have found a niche does it suit me, my temperament and do I have the passion for it to succeed – for the niche to be sustainable it must be “rewarding (makes $$$), enduring (a demand exists for the product overtime) and forgiving (will survive almost anything but catastrophic changes in circumstances)”.

Love the journey…

She teaches and I edit and shoot at LA PRENSA.

Sometimes I think though, that I will have to work as a male prostitute during my off weekends from at the paper to make ends meet.

Thankfully it has not come to that yet.

cheers

Of course, being in DC helps, not every wedding market is as good or dependable…

Kind of going through a transitional period at the moment, some would say backwards (financially, definitely) – I would say forwards (job satisfaction).

Currently a professional photographer in the Royal Air Force, I am leaving the relative financial security of a constant wage – I’m sure anyone who has served in any service, would agree, it’s a scary thing to do, leave that blanket behind.
For anyone in the UK, I’m looking forward to the NCTJ – 12wk Press Photography / Photojournalism course in February 2008.
Has anyone completed this? would like to hear from you.

With 4+ years behind me in the RAF, the time has come to spread my wings and do what I have always wanted.

So technically moving ‘backwards’ – not knowing what lies ahead.
I can not for one second knock the training and experience I have gained at a relatively young age, and now it’s time to look forward to the future.

If all else fails, I’ll join Bob Black on Sunday nights, and make money from my body! ;)

Looking forward to speaking (typing?) more, and learning even more from LS’ers

Regards,

Matt Kirwan
www.mattkirwan.co.uk

Also, to all the LSers considering turning tricks, I take glamor shots of escorts for their web profiles to make extra cash. Its way more fun than sweating half my body weight as a PA, and I get paid cash up front instead of waiting 6-8 weeks for a check in the mail.

Even though I liked some of the assignments I got as a stringer in L.A./ Ventura County, I could not stand the area, the traffic…the city. So after 20 years and right when I was about to start making good money, I got the hell out of L.A……

Followed my heart, not my bank account…

I worked at a few papers not earning anything more than $15 an hour and was always broke until the last few years. Now I shoot editorial, stock, fine art and advertising in the Rockies, I have been debt free for at least 7 years and make a very respectable living and still have loads of fun with it. I have money and time to go for long term projects of a documentary type…took awhile to get it to that point though.

I don’t sit around complaining about things I can’t change such as new media, iStock or any of that crap. I do my best to outsmart trends…

For now, it seems to be working…..

But boy, if it doesn’t pick up soon I might be shooting weddings and I had rather have my balls crushed by an elephant than to go that route. We’ll see….

I’m a freeance photojournalist who started professionally about 2 years ago. After spending about 6 months in Israel after college (and making barely ANY money at photography), I returned home. First starting out, I worked at a flower shop, went door-to-door doing environmental campaigning that paid per donation (might i add, it was July in Texas, and very hot : ), and also took pictures at college Fraternity parties (which was by far the worst one)… all while freelancing for the city newspaper. Fortunately, my other jobs began tapering down, as I started freelancing in photography more. Honestly, I have no idea how some of these people make it, esp the ones who are traveling all the time, AND have to pay rent in cities like NYC. I often feel like I have to save up for a long while to financially (and feasibly) afford a trip. IE: I slept on my friend’s living room floor last year for 6 months, reducing my rent to 1/4 of what it was, in order to save up to go to Uganda. And honestly, I really think i’ve had it easier than a lot of people. Some of my friends starting out who do commercial have nearly broken their bank accounts to buy studio equipment, because this is the standard they have to meet (in terms of studio lighting).

Now I am freelancing full time. A lot for newspapers, which don’t pay a whole lot, but slowly, slowly… it takes time. I really believe that if you are passionate enough about something and work your butt off, anything is possible (including paying the bills!)

AND, take a look at an interview with Lauren Greenfield on Digital Journalist in the archive. She says that something like 90 percent of her income comes from commercial / editorial work, whereas she is renown for her amazing documentary work. I feel like if Greenfield is shooting commercial stuff here and there, than I should be too!

from Lauren Greenfield on Digital Journalist

I guess the sad part of the equation is that it would be nice if I could just make a living doing editorial work, that’s really how it should be. If you’re working enough you should be able to sustain yourself that way. I have the added complication that I’m a working mom, so sometimes I’m going on the road with a baby sitter, and then I’m really looking at a break-even situation. I look at being able to create the work, and then see at what the outlets are, and be creative about the outlets. Once the work is created then there’s resale in Europe, there’s the fine art world, there’s using this work to get commercial work. I think the main thing, and I think it’s especially important for young photographers, is to figure out a way to do your own work, and do your own projects and find your own voice.

TK

Let’s bounce ideas around. Photoshelter Collection has enormous potential. That’s big thinking. We need to think on the same scale as regards assignment fees. We need to communicate and collaborate. Perhaps a huge survey is needed so that we can learn what the global mean assignment fee is and adjust accordingly.

What say you all? I tend to get $450 per day and charge $75 hourly for post production averaging about 3 hours per invoice. My clients tend to be universities and charities and so I tend to be generous with usage permissions. However, I’m endeavoring to gather in more corporate work and will need to be more savvy as regards permissions and fees accordingly.

I’ve started saying no to requests offering less. I simply cannot afford to go any lower.

Let’s try to take control of our situation and establish some norms below which we will not dip. We have to make a stand and stand together, despite our competitiveness. Don’t we?

I know what I have to earn in order to keep functioning. If only the photographers that can afford to undercut me and you could be stopped.

Not that I don’t agree with you – but you are walking a fine legal line with posts like this – you could be accused of price fixing. In the U.S., freelancers (independent businesspeople) cannot form a union without running afoul of anti-price-fixing laws.

As for setting a minimum – again this is price fixing – also – everyones cost of doing business is different – so the fact that I have 2 kids and a mortgage and a car payment and insurance blah – blah – blah – my cost of living and thus my cost of doing business is higher than say a 22 yr-old college graduate who is still living at home. That being said – the 22 yr-old newbie should make themselves aware (hopefully with our help) of the market they are working in and not attempt to undercut it substantially. Which speaks to what Michal posted above – it is not the client that is at fault it is the “cheaper photographer” that is the problem. Because that newbie who is able to charge less because their cost of doing business is lower – will eventually have larger financial responsibilities and doing those “cheap” jobs will not allow them to afford any other lifestyle than the one the currently have. They will eventually need more money to live and will go to their client and say “hey I can’t afford to work for this rate any longer – I want to buy a car or a house etc…” and the client will say tough shit and find another person willing to work for close to nothing. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. If all of us learn to say no to bad paying or rights grabbing gigs – then the clients will have no other choice but to engage a photographer at a “normal” rate for that particular market and put forth contracts that are more fair.

Hell, this has been an incredibly slow month for me and I am getting a little anxious – but I got a call the other day from my editorial agent here in Brussels who told me I had been requested by a client in Germany via my agencies syndicate agency in Germany – so the German agent was going to take 1/3 of the fee and my agent in Brussels was going to take 1/3 of the fee (just for answering the fucking phone) leaving me with 1/3 of the total fee – in other words – peanuts. So, I asked what the subject was – thinking that if the subject / images would have a decent shelf life and I could make up the difference and maybe even more on resales – it might be worth doing the job in spite of the poultry fee – but unfortunately the subject had very little long term value and I had to say no – as my 1/3 cut of the original fee was so far below my cost of doing business that it was grossly unacceptable. If that client wants to contact me directly – great – but I wasn’t going to work for that rate – even in my anxious state :-) We all have to learn to just say no!

And not that it really matters – but this wasn’t a problem with the client – it was a problem with the two agencies. They each had a choice – keep the client happy and give them the photographer they want by reducing or relinquishing their commission – and creating goodwill with the client – or find some other sap who will work for chump change. They opted for the later – and I am sure they didn’t tell the client the real reason I said no – they just said I was not available – found someone else to do the job and kept their respective commissions – f*%#ers! If all the photographers would say no to these kinds of situations – then maybe agencies would have to re-think their strategy.

We all price shop in our daily lives – so it makes sense that our clients will do the same. If we find cheaper car insurance it usually comes with the caveat of lesser coverage and / or a higher deductible. That is where we as consumers have to make a decision – do I pay less now and hope nothing bad happens – and if something does happen – know that I will end up paying more later – or do I pay more now and have piece of mind. The same thought process should happen with our clients – but when people start charging 30% – 50% – 75% less than the market norm it all goes pear shaped – which is the situation we find ourselves in now. Pick up a phone book and call five different plumbers in your area and see what they charge. I will bet that they are all within 5% to 10% of each other. Oh and try to negotiate the price down and see what happens – they will probably tell you to take a hike! Now call 5 different photographers in your area and see what happens :-) We collectively are the problem – or at least those of us that don’t employ good business practices.

I’ve got one for you….

OK – I had to share this with you guys cuz it just takes the cake…

I mentioned in my recent posts above that September was unusually slow and I was getting a bit anxious – well the tide started to turn today as I booked two jobs – one corporate and one editorial – I also sold a stock image and had an inquiry about another stock image – I am just waiting to see if they approve the licensing fee that I proposed (I just hope I haven’t jinxed myself by saying this out load :-))

AND I had another inquiry for a PR event being hosted by a small non-profit organization.
Now, I usually will pass on PR events – it is brain numbing work that rates just above wedding photography on my scale – so I will only do it if it pays well – and like I said – things have been slow – so I sent them a price quote.

Here are the particulars:

Event starts at 9 a.m. and ends at 10 p.m. – 13 hours of work – usage rights: unlimited PR / website / press packs. Photo responsibilities will be of speakers – reception candids etc – the normal “event fare”. Then post-process the images and deliver them on a CD the next day. The photographer will also be provided with lunch and dinner – the same thing the attendees are eating – so for the event organizers its is just one more plate. So, this is essentially 2 days of work with the shoot time and post processing combined.

As I am writing this I just had a thought… maybe instead of giving you the punch line to this story – We should use this as a test case and see how everyone here would price this job – anyone up for it???

So have at it – let me know how you would price this job and then I will tell you what I proposed and how they responded. It will make you laugh or cringe!

Andrews pricing is what I would consider to be very reasonable. I am a little embarrassed to say that my first
quote was a little lower than Andrews – and that’s partly due to me knowing this market in Brussels and to the fact that it was for a non-profit – even though I know I shouldn’t let that influence my pricing – we all know that non-profits can be well funded and can have decent budgets – unfortunately – not this one!

Anyway – my first quote was for 900 + 250 post processing = €1150.
They responded with that’s too much can you do any better.
In my defense – it’s been slow and I thought should I let this gig go
for a couple hundred euros – it would still be a 1000 euro day – which is nothing to sneeze at.
So I said I would do it for €1000 including post processing ( I know – shame on me!) and I also asked what they had budgeted for photography.

Their response was as follows:

“Hello Jock,

We had set aside Euros 400 for our photography budget.

But we appreciate your work and interest in this project. We would be able to offer Euro 600. The event includes lunch, reception and a dinner for you.

Also, as a token of our appreciation, we could relay your contact details to our key partners that are assisting us with this event for potential work.

As a non-profit, we are limited, and yet we value the importance of quality work.

If this event is successful, we hope to return to Brussels on an annual basis.

We are volunteering our time for this initiative that will focus on improving the transatlantic relations.

We look forward to hearing from you.
”

So, these people “value the importance of quality work” but budget 400 euros for a 13+ hour gig – give me a break!!! And they will even kick in food and some referrals – for equally low paying jobs – what a deal!!!

My final response was…

“I appreciate your situation – but I am afraid I can not do this job for 600 euros.

I checked with a couple of my colleagues and none of them are interested in this job either. And honestly I don’t know of any professional photographers in Brussels that would be willing to do it for what you have budgeted.

I would suggest that you check with local photo schools to see if you can find a student who might do it under the table.

I also appreciate your offer of referrals – but I really don’t want or need referrals for jobs at this price – it is not worth my time or the risk to my equipment.

If your budget increases in the coming year(s) – please don’t hesitate to contact me.

I wish you the best of luck with your endeavors.

With kind regards…”

Anyway – thought you all would appreciate the sad humor in this! :-)

1. Fix how much you want to earn a year. 40 000$, 50 or 60? If you want to work 40 hours a week for 48 weeks, that make 1929 hours/year.
50 000$/1920 hours = 26,04 $/hour.

2. So every hour that you work is worth 26 $. But your work is not all picture taking. You have to do post-production, administration, looking for clients and jobs, etc.

So to make it for all these non paying duties, he multiplies shooting time by 4
( 26 X 4 = 104$/hour).

Let’s do Jock’s exemple again with these figures:
13 hours X 104 = 1350 $ wich is not far from your final quote ( 1000 Eur = 1412 CAD$)

Mr Amyot suggest to add cost to this quote (print, displacement, cd burning, fancy photoshop time etc) with a margin of profit.

BTW it is not price fixing but a method that everybody could get inspiration to work out their quote.

By way of odd reference, check out this piece in CNN about how actor Jackie Chan doesn’t really like his Rush Hour movie franchise::
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/01/people.jackiechan.ap/index.html

Or, if you don’t want to read it, here’s the relevant part: “Chan has been known to be blase about his Hollywood work. He said in a 2005 interview with The Associated Press that he uses the high salary he earns in the U.S. to fund Chinese-language projects that truly interest him.”

Corporate America – and by that I mean both corporations like Microsoft and the New York Times Co and the Washington Post Co and the parent companies of the LA Times, and every other single newspaper outlet all treat what they’re doing a business, and nothing more. If they can sucker you into an all rights forever deal for a few hundred dollars, then they’re the wise ones, and you’re the fool. If you, instead, turn down those abusers, and instead, fund your altruistic and world-changing assignments with corporate work, where the pay can be $1500+ a day, then that is the path to make a difference.

Anyone who wants to can use my pricing structures, or pricing calculator, to figure out what I’ve been able to charge – http://www.johnharrington.com/dc-photographer-pricing/index.shtml for a wide variety of work.

The NPPA’s CODB is a good place to start. To set your sights, to give you a figure to aim for so that each day you make pictures is profitable as a photographer. While you may start with 1 or 3 days a month, make each of those days profitable as a photographer, and then grow that figure to 5 a month, then 10 a month, and so forth. On those non-shooting days, either do things which will sustain you and pay the bills, or pursue new clients, or both. There’s a ton of work at unprofitable rates, but the people who suckle at that teet will suffer the consequences of malnourishment in short order.

It’s a damn shame and means many young photographers have a really hard first few years, many even quitting just because they can’t make money from what they do. I think the situation is the same in most big cities, certainly in Paris there are so many young talented photographers working for way under the going rate just to get a piece of the action. When these guys and girls grow up and have to face more serious life “responsiblities” they are basically screwed and join the whinging ranks.

I would say: Refuse any badly paid jobs and work on the side doing something else if you have to, as your quality client list grows you can dump the part time job, but for god’s sake don’t be cheap and ruin it for everyone else.

I think the worst payers are some of the newswires: Reuters € 150 a day, all rights, your equipment. If you want to have a difficult time, try making a living doing that kind of work. They are even worse than the NYT – They pay half as much! Try surviving on that kind of money in a first world capital. The thing is, there are plenty of young and not so young mugs who are ready to accept that deal.

Their arguement for offering that fee, which didn’t even include expenses for me getting across to London from Bristol and accomodation or food, was that it would have been a fantastic opportunity for me to hand out business cards!!!! The woman organising it seemed to miss the point that a)she was getting paid to do it and b)she would be boasting to those same people I was giving cards to how she was such a good event manager as she even got the photography for free….

Needless to say, I told them where to stick it. As an aside, when my friend heard they were trying to offer no cash, he was amazed as they are one of the largest professional service firms in the UK. Oh, and interestingly, he has also been made to work from home now a couple of days a week as they are vastly expanding but refuse to purchase more office space so are making everyone work from home and the office to make enough space -nice company aren’t they!

Lost another job today as I guess I must have quoted too highly -£250 per day for a commercial shoot which is an absolute pitance but figured it’d be higher than they would pay anyway. They came back saying they had found others far more suitably experienced! Seeing as all they were looking for was someone who has, and I quote their advert for the job, “understanding of digital cameras (preferably experience of a DSLR) and basic knwledge of photoshop cs2” I find it slightly hard to swallow that I’m not suitably experienced!!! I also know now that they were interested in paying more like £50 a day…

Anyway, all this is basically to say I’m fairly new to having to make a living in this industry (a year out of Uni, worked in house for an agency before that), know so little about how to do anything else that I’m pretty much unemployable for any other industry, and am so skint its getting hard to feed myself but still believe we should hold our ground on fees. Otherwise in 5 years I’ll probably be living in a box.

Anyway, I’m going back to feeling bitter, rant over.

Ah, if only I had the balls to do that years ago. Now no matter what kind of work I’m doing, photographer, writing, web work, I ask “What’s your budget”, or “what are you thinking of spending on this”. Works almost every time.

Graduating from College this semester and this is the horrible state of affairs for many of us that are new to the industry…..

After finding myself without any newspaper clients worth working for…

one demanding an all rights contract, without even so much as a pay increase, and all sorts of language saying that if anything happened to us, they dont cover us and if anything happens to them, we must support them! (fuck off)

one cutting off all their stringers after a media group bought them out, and when they do have gigs, they pay $115 per day, without even paying gas… (again fuck off)

and the only ‘independent’ paper left just layed off 1/4 of their newsroom, so obviously arent spending on us lowly stringers…..

Im bartending and helping out at the university for a little pay, while pitching multimedia’s to my NGO contacts…

Heres to living in one of the most expensive cities in the country while making jack shit… I thought the potatoes and pasta diet would end when i stopped being a starving student… i guess not!

Also, the couples are a lot more grateful when you bring them a nice set of pics than most of the clients I’ve ever had.

I shied away from this type of photography for several years before taking the plunge.

You can do a lot worse, both with regards to pay and how you are treated.

I have done some non-editorial work here and there (although I havent shot weddings yet), its just that it killed my creativity and made me not want to pick up a camera, which is my worst nightmare…

I guess I better get over it, or stop bitching and enjoy bartending!

Cheers

These days I’m adopting a more positive approach to making a living out of corporate and wedding photography. If you work at it you can make anything creative and interesting, and if you manage your clients will certainly notice.

I started out as a travel photographer, making a living in that field is really tough, you need thousands of good and varied images, you can imagine the investment in time and money and then the difficulties in marketing the pics after. Then I branched out into photojournalism, finding the human aspect, essay aspect more interesting, a lot deeper. AndI’ve ended up where most people end up after a while: doing a mix of things that suit my skills.

I’d still rather do this than work in an office! It’s hard work, but it’s rewarding and you’re your own boss. It’s also very varied and you meet a wide range of people.

In my spare time I am a contract hit man (specialising in poodles that crap on the pavement), odour judger (I smell armpits all day to help make deodorants that will work well), brain picker (I place animal heads on a table or on hooks in a slaughterhouse, split the skulls and pick out the brains), hooker inspector (hold on, let me explain. I inspect the clothes in a textile mill for defects by using a hooking machine that folds the cloth), chicken sexer (I sort through baby chicks to determine if they are male or female, and then segregate them), upsetter (I set up and operate a closed-die forging machine that expands the ends of hot metal bars), cowpuncher and soap opera pimp (Huggy Bear, eat your heart out).

No money in journalism these days….

At the risk of going slightly off subject here I think you’re mistaking the chicks for the Lesser Spotted Coo Coo bird, a very distant ancestor of the chicken. A bill (see what I’ve done there?) for which breed was passed through UK parliament in the early 18th Century banning all sex segregation on grounds of traumatisation during transportation from one coup to another. Once at their final destination the coo coo bird (Les Spot Coo Coo in French) could then still only be segregated whilst under general anesthetic so as not to cause distress in the process.

Many activist groups still maintain that, as you rightly pointed out, this is still discrimination, however the farmers union disagrees, reasoning that “all life forms have a pecking order, why should the Lesser Spotted Coo Coo bird be any different”?

Its a common mistake to make though.
Andy.

I see-I wasnt aware of the backstory…I take it this bird does well in Bolivia, then?

I’m afraid that on this particular ornithological subject my knowledge stretches no further than the British Isles. I have a good contact in La Paz though who has devoted her life to studying the wingaringringloo bird. We haven’t had contact for sometime now due to her embed within close proximity to a new nest they’ve discovered in the South of the city but I’d be delighted to pass on her email if you wanted to get in touch.

Always happy to help.
Andy.

And then there’s my sideline of training parrots as dental hygienists. It’s a little difficult, what with them not having opposable thumbs and all, but they catch on quick and work for peanuts and sometimes crackers as well, and they’re very good at what they do.