m8

I use one with no hassle as it pertains to the wires and charger, chips and battery. Its comfortable and easy to use. It feels like an M6 and that is why you get it. I still shoot film and a lot of it, mostly 4×5 and 8×10 though. However,I feel like I have the M8 to do what I had stopped doing for a while; engage people on the street, glean from the bustling New York streets a kind of “theatrical motif” that I cannot get with larger formats. My advice, if you are shooting film, shoot film and never try to confuse the two. Digi has eas-ability (just felt like making this one up) as its strongest advantage. I do not feel like spending the money on 35mm film but I will not think twice about 4×5 or 8×10. And thats it.

I absolutely love my M8. So much, in fact, that I’ve just ordered a second one. The “hassle” of chargers and batteries, etc., doesn’t begin to approach the hassle and expense of traveling with film, developing, scanning. I have Canons – 1DMII and 5D and I much prefer the photos from the M8. It handles just like my film M’s and I can use my fantastic M lenses again.

Tina Manley
www.tinamanley.com

I’ve been using it exclusively on a long-term project and I have mixed feelings about it. On the plus side, it’s discrete, quiet, and easy to operate, as you would expect. The photos are incredibly sharp and I spend much less time developing than I did before because the color capture seems more true. However, I’ve missed shots I was sure I had because of the inaccurate framelines, especially when shooting a subject sidelong. I’m also loathe to shoot above 640 ISO because of noise. I love my M7 (although my light meter just crapped out), but I’m considering selling the M8 once this project is done for a 5D or D300. If Leica can fix the framelines and improve the low light performance the next go around, I’d probably shoot that exclusively, but until then the M8 is too temperamental for me.

Bryan,

I am about to the opposite—switch from a 5D to an M8. I really don’t like how I was forced to switch to an SLR in order to shoot digital (first because there was no M8 and then because of its prohibitive cost). I have always shot with Leica M6s and you simply cannot operate properly on the street with a 5D and the 35mm L lens—it’s so much bigger than an M with the little 28mm/35mm lens. But, yes, for lowlight the 5D is of course much better. How inaccurate are the frame lines of the M8 ?

Very inaccurate.

Until I went digital in 2001 I shot with M6’s for nearly all of my work. Nearly one year ago I bought a M8 to replace my 5D. I had been frustrated at how soft and distorted the Canon lenses were while my Leica glass collected dust.
I absolutely love my m8 when it works properly. I have sent mine in 3 or 4 times with horrible bugs. I will add that if you do get an M8 be sure to get on the Leica Professional Service list as you may need that service.
Also due to these bugs I have not felt comfortable enough to sell my Canon gear yet and on my bigger jobs I always rent a 2nd M8 as a backup and bring my Canon along as well (although I rarely use the canon).
As for the framelines, which was your question.
Yes they are BAD.
But I have gotten used to them on all my lenses except for my 28mm lens (which is like a 35 on the m8). I will never understand why they changed the framelines the way they did for this camera (they are optimesed for 1 meter instead of 3 meters from the older cameras).
As for people who complain about how it handles in low light, I find it a dream. yes there is more noise than the canon but there is also more detail as well as clairity, and the noise just about equals that of 35mm film at those asa’s.

Bryan – Have you updated to the latest firmware? The last couple of updates have really improved the performance at higher ISOs. I find, though, that with Leica’s fast lenses, I rarely need to go above 160. If you underexpose slightly instead of increasing ISOs, it might give you better results. I specialize in low light photography and I love my M8.

Tina Manley
www.tinamanley.com

>I will never understand why they changed the framelines the way they did for this camera >(they are optimesed for 1 meter instead of 3 meters from the older cameras).

Actually the frame lines are optimized as follows.
In each case the framelines indicate the area of coverage at the closet focusing distance.

M3/M2/M4/M5/M4-2 and most M4-P bodies
Frame lines indicate coverage at 1 meters

M6/M6ttl/M7/MP/ late model M4-P, possibly MP3 bodies
Frame lines indicate coverage at .7 meters

M8
I have yet to see an accurate answer to this question from anyone; including Leica. In my experience I would say they indicate the coverage at roughly 45-50cm (.45 – .5 meters)

The problem is that as you focus from the closest focusing distance to infinity, a change in magnification occurs, that changes the field of view of the lens. You can observe this by mounting a 50mm lens on an SLR and changing focus from close up to infinity.

The framelines in an M camera compensate for parallax in X and Y, by shifting them up /down and left/right. They do not compensate for the change in magnification and the resulting change in the area of coverage. The area indicated by the frame lines remains fixed as you change focus.

In past the difference in magnification between 1 meter and infinity was not very noticeable, especially at average working distances from 1 meter to 10 meters.

Starting with the M6 Leica changed the area of coverage from 1 meter to .7 meters (70cm). Suddenly the difference in coverage from 1 meter to infinity was a lot more noticeable, in particular with 50/75/90/135mm lenses. As an example the 50mm frame lines indicate the coverage of a 60mm lens focused at infinity.

With the M8 it’s even worse, because Leica appears to have reduced the area of coverage once again.

Why does Leica do this? Because they want to you see the absolute minimum you are going to end up with on your negative. And that happens to be the area of coverage indicated at the closest focusing distance. This makes perfect sense from an engineering standpoint, but it’s something of a disaster in the real world.

No one is asking for 100% accurate coverage. That’s what a Nikon F is for. But we have gone from having cameras with reasonably accurate framing, to something that is unacceptably inaccurate for many people and that’s not a good thing.

About two weeks ago there was an interview with the head of Leica (not the recently ‘departed’ Mr. Lee) and he seemed to indicate that Leica was working on a solution to the problem.

To me it sounded like they are working on a new RF unit that either uses a mechanical solution to display the change in coverage that the frame lines indicate, or they are perhaps going to introduce electronically generated frame lines in the viewfinder. Either way that’s a guess or desperation on my part for a solution.

Thanks, Tina. I’ll check my version. I’m glad you like yours. Like I said, it does do some things exceedingly well.

i was playing with my g5, sometimes shooting using the screen like a waist level viewfinder, sticking the g5 on the ground, just walking by and click! etc.

it got me thinking "why did i never do this before? so i tried it with my m6 and a bit of hypafocal, well wow is all i can say… it’s just film, and often one of the images that i have used in the end…

i often now just sence and shoot and see the image later

I have had the M8 since last July (I have M6s and M5). It is improving every 2/3 months thanks to the upgrades. The main advantage for me is the use of the lenses (4 Leica and 3 Rokkor) I already have. I use it mainly for “street photography” and for assignments needing a lens below 75mm. Of course the framing is not too accurate, focusing manually has its drawback but it is a pleasurable and versatile tool. The results are very good. For the rest I use Nikon D2X and lenses 80 mm and above. I carry a Canon G9 all the time.

www.ventsdest.net

Bryan – Have you updated to the latest firmware? The last couple of updates have really improved the performance at higher ISOs…

Tina Manley

Tina,
I’ve just re-read the contents of all the firmware updates I have since April ‘07. Not one of them claims any change to ’high ISO’ performance, in fact the only IQ issues addressed are AWB and corner colour drift with 16 to 35mm lenss (both are only relevant to jpg of course)???
I have to say that I stopped bothering with the updates, as they havnt been addressing any of the (many) frustrations I have with the M8, and seem to be more aimed at jpg shooters, but I always check the balance of opinion on updates at the leica user forum (useful resource if you can live with the pro-leica fanatics trying to shout down even the mildest criticism!), and unless I have missed something the view has been that high iso performance hasnt changed much if at all.
If I havemissed something, I’d be grateful to know about it, as I find 640 just looks too different from 320 so its difficult to get a consistent look across a series if some are shot at 640. Why leica only let you change iso in full ev steps is beyond me….

Guy – I’m going by performance comparing high ISOs from when I first got my M8 two years ago to the photos after the latest upgrade. There is a noticeable difference. If you Google M8 upgrades and ISOs, there are quite a few who agree. Just try it. Also try underexposing slightly and using fast lenses wide open – that works for me. The main reason I use Leicas is to use their wonderful fast lenses wide open so I’m very happy with my M8. :-)

Tina Manley
www.leicatraveler.blogspot.com

Tina, 2 years!? you must have been doing pre-production development for leica… I like my M8 for what its good at, but that doesnt include high iso. Now that I have a D3 not only do I have high iso performance which is LOADS better, I also have a 35mm FOV at f1.4, which sadly isnt available with the M8.
If your happy, thats great for you, personally I find the M8 far too much of a half developed product and much as I prefer the size and weight of the M8 its the D3 thats going to india with me next week

Guy – Actually, I bought my first M8 on 11/10/06 but I had used a loaner from Leica for a couple of months before that. I just got back from 5 weeks in India. I carried the M8, an M7, and a Canon 5D. As I review the photos, I am getting by far more keepers from the M8. That may just be that my style is more suited to rangefinders. Here are some of my photos from India:
www.leicatraveler.blogspot.com
Have a great trip! It would be hard to take bad photos in India!

Tina Manley
www.tinamanley.com

No hassle, as easy to use as a M6. A everyday companion. Just one has to learn to work again with only one body, instead of up to three in the time of the Leica M4. Elmarit 2.8/24mm ASPH is my favorite lens, the Summicron 2/28mm ASPH coming second.

To backup pictures I do recommend an Hyperdrive Colorspace 120GB 299 USD.[do M8 raw dng]

See http://www.hyperdrive.com

http://www.sanho.com

A Samsung product.