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Magnum and OnRequest Images
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Is it true?
Has Magnum decided to pimp themselves out with OnRequst?
If so, how sad.
No wonder this industry continues to falter.
by
Kenneth Jarecke
at
Sat Jan 19 01:37:31 UTC 2008
(ed. Mar 12 2008)
Montana,
United States
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Explain though why this is so different than before. . . Magnum photographers have been doing advertising/commercial work for years.
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Agree with Davin.
What’s the big deal here?
The end of Magnum? That’s silly. More like a way of securing its future, perhaps…
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Just that alike Black Star, Magnum could or should have built its own commercial arm.
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Probably makes better business sense for them to establish external partnerships.
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They have a been a ghost of themselves for a while…better off re-inventing themselves/ being swallowed up than just disappearing with a whimper…………..some photographic sectors may soon join blacksmiths
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Does seem a curious marriage, I agree.
I suppose there is some modern revenue generating brand alliance logic / magic behind all that. Not that it has much importance to me…
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i hope magnums venture into commercial/advertising photography becomes a great success. the advertising industry is very sheeplike,so if a photo-journalistic style in advertising becomes popular,that must be good for the rest of us?
don’t write magnum off yet,they have not survived for 60 years by being stupid
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Problem is that they lost their photojournalistic style in the process.
Not something really new. Richard Kalvar in the 70’s had two portfolio, photojournalism and commercial. No style connexion between them.
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daniel,
are they losing it,or evolving it? time will tell.
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The problem isn’t doing commercial work. Everyone’s been doing that for years. One can’t really make a decent living on editorial alone. Not in 2008 at least.
The problem is with whom they are affiliating. Unless they have drastically changed their business model, these OnrRequest, image marauders, have been trying to make a go of things off the backs of photographers for some time now. At least that was the hubbub a few years ago. Perhaps they have seen the light and are on the path to righteousness. Let’s hope so. Though I don’t have tremendous faith in companies with Venture Capital backing. There is generally only one motive in these endeavors. Money.
You can read hear about what the business model started out as, and what the flak was all about.
http://www.asmp.org/news/spec2004/customstock.php
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Dont know anything about OnRequest, but so far as Magnum venturing into commercial work, that is nothing new, though the agency has never pursued this market with the same enthusiasm or deliberation as Black Star (but then, what good has that done Black Star, which is moribund). I think the photographers at Magnum that have pursued commercial work have done so largely on their own. Someone mentioned Kalvar, but look at Erwitt, Davidson and others. Btw, Davidson’s commercial work, with which I am somewhat familiar, does not at all present a dichotomy — he carries over his stylistic concerns into the commercial work and the results are excellent. And where do you think he gets the opportunity to do all those portraits that eventually were published as a book? Dont sneer too readily at the opportunities that commercial work can present you — I am not saying it’s all gravy, but it aint necessarily the work of the devil either. Jethro is right, it is not necessarily the business itself but how you do business that poses the problem.
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OneRequest conception of commercial work is in opposite side of what Bruce Davidson has done. There is where lay the problem.
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Yes, Daniel. i am not endorsing the OneRequest MO.
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Of course, there is always the possibility that we don’t know the details of the arrangement between Magnum and OneRequest and are basing our speculation on far too little information. (:-)).
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Maybe I’m wrong, the way I understand OnRequest’s business model is this;
1) A company will approach them with detailed requirements for their photographic needs.
2) OnRequest will then approach five or six of their contributing photographers, outline the specific needs and the photographers will then produce the images.
3) OnRequest then shows the work of the different photographers to the company. The company then chooses the images that they want to purchase.
4) The photographers that “won” the competition are paid for their work. The photographers who were not chosen get nothing for their work.
5) OnRequest gets a 50% commission on the sale.
I think this is called “custom stock”, but it’s really just another way for photographers to go out of business.
If this is indeed the situation, then Magnum must really be in bad shape, regardless of the specifics of their deal with OnRequest or how it specifically benefits them.
I suppose the argument must be something like this;
1) We’re a cooperative so the money helps all of us, regardless of who makes the winning sale.
2) The images that are not selected are still viable and help to increase are archives.
3) We’re not doing anything else, so if it doesn’t cost us too much we might as well do this.
I don’t know anything specific. I’m just speculating and sharing my opinion. I also don’t have any problem with so-called commercial work, but that’s a different subject.
The problem here is photographers working, spending money to produce images, and then not getting paid.
There was a time, not too long ago when EDITORIAL clients were not allowed to see work until making a guarantee. This could be a standard dayrate, a certain sum of money, or a promise that if the image was used it would cost two or three times the normal space rate. This was standard business practice. Now it happens very rarely. Why should an editor make a guarantee when they can see Getty or Corbis content for free?
In my opinion, OnRequest and now Magnum are helping to destroy the commercial market that many editorial photographers rely on to actually pay the bills (if these reports are true).
Tell me, what incentive is there for a young photographer to protect their copyright, to not sign work-for-hire contracts?
If this is true, where is the voice of photographers like Elliot Erwitt who fought the original copyright battles with the big magazines and were then often black-balled for their efforts?
Does the older generations not care anymore? Are they just content to publish books of old work that they could never have produced if they were working under today’s current business model?
What about you youngsters, are you happy living without health insurance in a one bedroom with four other people? Do you think that your earning power will magically increase when you want to buy a house or support a family? Two or three dayrates a month might get you by for now… how romantic! Trust me, eventually your parents will stop paying for your dental care. Then what? Maybe a little commercial work? Think again.
The sad part is that I’m an optimist. I really believe that eventually quality content will trump cheap content and this market will turn around. Unfortunately, Magnum has a few pretty good shooters, and if they decide to give it away who’s going to buy the cow then?
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Kenneth, you did exposed it well. And that exactly where is the problem.
Magnum photographers will be in competition with others than Magnum’s. And corporations choice will never be on quality, just “brand” recognition. Destroying hell.
Otherwise, Bill Gates is still trying to make money with Corbis, which still does not.
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Really believing that eventually quality content will trump cheap content and this market will turn around, stupidly reminds me of Ben Franklin’s definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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.. to a lot of kids and others under 30 Magnum is just an ice cream, so what’s the big deal?
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No big deal at all and maybe now they can all get concerned fashion gigs like smart Alec.
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Don’t knock Alec, he is alive and kicking, no redundancy package required for him….
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Who’d be stupid enough to knock smart Alec, focused on what truly matters?
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Qoute
Streets Magnum was launched in 1992, setting a new benchmark in indulgent ice creams in Australia. Magnum has continued to lead the ice cream market through exciting innovations such as Magnum Ego Caramel, Magnum Minis, and Limited Editions such as 7 Deadly Sins and Sixty 9s.
Streets Magnum has a range of delicious indulgent flavours to satisfy any craving including Classic, Almond, Ego Caramel and Peppermint. From the first bite you will experience the ultimate pleasure of Streets Magnum through quality cracking chocolate and creamy ice cream. Allow your senses to be intoxicated and give in to a Streets Magnum moment of pleasure!
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No doubt about it, this century is all about motion. Stupid stills are last century’s antiques.
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Last I heard, OnRequest had ditched their Custom Stock idea, because it wasn’t making them enough money.
Like, duuuh.
Everybody has to make a living I suppose, but there does seem to be an element of selling the family silver about the Magnum/OnRequest deal. OnRequest was criticised by the ASMP and others, for using a lowball business model which hasn’t really benefited OnRequest much, and certainly hasn’t benefited photographers.
Along with the likes of Martin Parr getting into bed with Channel 4’s recent ‘Picture This’ rights grab/content trawl, it does seem a long way from what was probably the first photo-agency to recognise and defend the value of authorship.
We don’t have any specifics of course, but it sets a depressing tone, bearing in mind the wholesale cannibalisation of the industry thats taking place. I would have hoped the likes of Magnum would have been be a little more innovative, as they have been in other areas.
It’s clear that quality has been trumped by low cost in the mass market, but commercial assignment work is by definition, a bespoke product. OnRequest, with their Custom Stock model, managed to break the back of even that.
Or should I say, it was photographers willing to ‘work with them’.
Yeah, like stevedores ‘standing on the stones’, begging for a days work was ‘working with’ the dock boss.
Not.
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Oh… Interesting… I think I was not told about this… Thank you Kenneth for letting me know… (should mention this in Damaso’s LS Success Stories)
John
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Is Magnum still a cooperative run by members photographers ?
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Just look at what OneRequest is saying in its site, about the Brand notion and their way to work.
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First… I suspect that, in the long run, OnRequests will be sorrier that they hooked up to Magnum, than Magnum will be for having hooked up with OnRequest… “Magnum”, as a business, is a very difficult entity to do any sort of mundane, day-to-day business with… because it is not ONE entity… it is many.
Second… the John Vink post indicates to me that OnRequest has an arrangement with ONE of the many Magnum Factions… not the whole of Magnum. I further suspect that other Factions, made up of those who are older/smarter/more-concerned-with-survival-in-the-long-haul, will prevail, and we’ll hear no more about this thing. This wouldn’t be the first, nor would it be the last, of these sorts of “deals” that just evaporate from the Magnum Landscape.
… Greg
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