New York Photo Award

Scandalous. And look at the names attached? They ought to know better. I was initially delighted to see this award but on reading the small print and considering the fees, forget it. And my work is ALL ABOUT NEW YORK but I’m priced out of this one. Damn it.

here we go again, another " photographers who want to work for free" thread but this time, we really have to pay

I looked the award site over and was thinking the same thing. As if the rights grab wasn’t bad enough, the entry fees are insane.

Seriously, I think if you want things like this to stop happening, act on it. Write them, call them, but do something.

Based on my own experience in business, I think that much of the time these ‘rights grabas’ are the result of people not talking with their legal departments. Lawyers by nature are overly protective of their clients and since nobody reads the fine print, even other people involved in this competition don’t know that this is happening.

It’s worth an email, right?

We structured the New York Photo Awards along the lines of similar awards and annuals such as the IPAs and American Photography; you will note, if you compare, the submission fees are quite competitive, and we offer an unparalleled platform for exposure, namely an immense concentration of media professionals and photo aficionados in New York in May, when the winners and honorable mentions will be announced at the awards ceremony, sponsored by Microsoft (debuting an amazing new development that night), and the in the Photo Annual to be published by pH later in the year. I think the NYPHA package in terms of other awards and compilations out there offers far more bang for the buck. And while the license grant may seem wordy, we do need the right to produce the entries in the Photo Annual promised, and yes, if there is an article published on the NY Photo Awards, we should be able to have some work from the Awards published as well; the publicity should be good for one’s work I would think.

It’s pretty frustrating..the jury is good – Elisabeth is at The New Yorker, Frank E. is at VII.. Jody Quon is at New York, Daniel is PowerHouse, Bill Hunt is Hasted Hunt..Melcher is a publisher, Ben is M&B gallery in L.A….

It’s exploitative. Pure and simple. Just look at the sponsors.

No, it’s not an opportunity to be published by pH; it’s an opportunity to have your work reviewed by an incredible group and the chance to be selected for merit with an award. And again, notice the fee structure of other organizations; it’s competitive. It takes a lot of resources to mount these initiatives. The awards ceremony is Friday night, the highlight of the festival’s evening programming. The DUMBO Arts Festival draws over 125,000 people over three days, and we have similar hopes.

daniel,

i was talking to the photo-editor and main photographer of a leading weekly serbian magazine this afternoon.he has to shoot 4 or 5 stories a week,and do the editing and layout.his salary is 200 euros a month.

if you are really interested in finding and exposing new talent your prices are simply too prohibitive for people across huge swathes of this planet.

maybe you should consider this,perhaps you could use the fees garnered in the richer western societies to subsidise free or greatly reduced entry fees for those less well off?

hi Daniel..

The reason I am saying that it boils down to a chance to be published and reproduced well, which I do believe is a good thing – is because there are other opportunities to be reviewed by an equally great team, which cost less or are free.

I wonder if some of the merit associated with winning isn’t diluted because the entrant pool is diluted due to lack of financial ability to enter. With certain big name awards, like Best of Photojournalism, which are free, everyone knows you are competing with the highest pool.

So when additionally the license grant is so liberal, it makes it even less compelling to enter. Perhaps it can be re written? I know I’d like to have this an award that I can participate in…the panel is great as will be the May events. But we need fewer opportunities like American Photo and more like BOP.

it’s an interesting point Michael; we were able to come up with a student option for submissions, but we haven’t yet figured out a western nation subsidy option…but you’ve given me an idea and I will pitch it to Frank, and if we can find a submission criteria the computer program can deal with, I’ll post the news here. Thanks for the heads up.

I’m conflicted about this contest. With the caliber and reputation of the people involved, namely the judges, and the possibility of getting one of my pictures published and my name and work publicized, I’m thinking this would be worth the steep entry fees. On the other hand, I’m not too hot on the rights grab as part of the privilege to enter.

I’m particularly bothered by the stipulation that the organizers “may use the entries and a name credit in any media now or hereafter known, without restriction, including commercially using the entries to the fullest extent possible worldwide in perpetuity.” This means this powerful group will compete with me in marketing the photos that I created and own forever and ever which is plain crazy. I don’t even have to win anything to get them to do that to me. In fact, I’m paying them to screw me over to the hilt.

I don’t understand why on earth the organizers need to do this. Can you explain that to me, Daniel? If one of the purposes of the contest is to bring new talent to the attention of the world, why do they need to rip them off? It is like hazing unknown and struggling photographers to the fullest extent possible worldwide in perpetuity.

daniel,
thanks for the quick reply. i have one or two ideas how something like this could work.if you decide to go ahead feel free to contact me and pick my brains.

hi Erica, yes you are right in some respects; it would be great to have a large corporate sponsor underwrite the cost of scripting the computer programs, renting the server space, getting material out to the reviewers, programming the awards shorts for winners, and paying for the book, but we’re not there, not this year, and we had to model ourselves on what others like us are doing. From another point of view, if it cost the photographer nothing, would we be inundated by spurious submissions, making it more difficult to find gems people worked hard to produce, and have to part with something of themselves, like a monetary fee, to get it out there? Maybe, maybe not. We have to start somewhere. With regards to liberal license, it was cribbed from a nationwide publication that features geographic national stuff, and is a small country unto itself, so it is perhaps too overarching. We are adding some promotional-specifc language to limit or more tightly align the use of the work with expected outcomes (the Annual, news and review articles and the like, online presentations of winners or juror’s selections). We just want avoid having to go back to everyone for permissions because we are like two-and-a-half people trying to do this.

We’re not trying to rip people off Max, we need people submitting to realize that when winners or honorable mentions or jury’s selects get finalized, we want to announce on our site, in an annual or if we can in the festival catalogue (hence Apr 14 closing), have the ability to make available images to mags or entities planning articles on it, maybe even a snazzy YouTube presentation of the awards, we don’t know yet. An assistant cribbed the license and I should have proofed and I didn’t because I’ve been swamped with festival and publishing co, so we are going to revise it. Sam should be able to post a revise here later today, and we’ll get it the awards site later when Graham gets back from lunch.

Thanks for the reply, Daniel. I sense that you’re trying to be fair, and I’m looking forward to the revised T&C.

hi Daniel..

that would be a great start – language to limit or more tightly align the use of the work with expected outcomes (the Annual, news and review articles and the like, online presentations of winners or juror’s selections) After all, if that is the idea behind having access, then it should be worded to reflect that and not more.

I appreciate the amount of money that goes into pulling this off, which is why I am considering entering, but I don’t think the fees directly reflect the photographer’s (professional, artistic) investment. Maybe creating some base line requirements for the pro category would be a solution..

Thanks Daniel!! and thanks to all my LS friends!!

I wanted to start this positive dialog about the award when I opened up this thread, and I am happy that everything is going towards a good end.

Thanks again to all of you.

Yes, this is great news, and I’m glad to see a positive outcome.

Daniel…

I do really appreciate your will to be fair, and your quick responses to questions raised here, but at the mean time I completely agree with some points that others have set here regarding FEES, and Terms and Conditions. I got deeply concerned with this kind of things which as a matter of fact get in conflict with the apparent intention of such award, contest, portfolio review, etc (and I am not just referring exclusively to New York Photo Award) that are pretending to give a great opportunity for exposure and prestige of talent but at the mean time set a very “ High Fence” to A LOT of talented people from parts of the world who just COULD NOT AFFORD TO PAY such a FEE ( I am writing capitals just to emphasize on certain issues). Therefore wouldn’t have the opportunity to bee seen.

I attended a worldwide known event two years ago and I did got very frustrated by the fact that there were not SINGLE participant from Africa and just a VERY FEW from Latin America ( I think they still are on the world map), and why there were not, lack of talent?…Nope, just the prohibitive FEES set by organizers. This is becoming a cycle of a recurrent phenomena (see Seydou Keyta history and many others) which is basically attempting to a broaden diffusion of the work of very good artist around the globe.

Regarding this paragraph: “ From another point of view, if it cost the photographer nothing, would we be inundated by spurious submissions, making it more difficult to find gems people worked hard to produce, and have to part with something of themselves, like a monetary fee, to get it out there? Maybe, maybe not. We have to start somewhere.” Daniel.. I don´t think that way, I just think that setting a high FEE would split (once more) giving a lot of spurious “wannabe” the possibility to participate (at least be seen by Jury) and would reduce the choices of the kind of people I already mentioned here with will, talent, but…no money. The bottom line of the story is that History is made from Books and, we are responsible to feed them with appropriate content and not privileged ones.

Jury is Top of the line, I know (as many others) the philosophy of some of them and I´m pretty sure they prefer to SEE what it´s around not just limited to a FEE.

Regarding rights granted I´d prefer to not discuss it, BUT…you are a publisher and I´m sure you know It´s not at all a fair contract, Why?.. participants would receive broad exposure + would be selected for it merits (so work deserved to be published)+ It would also guarantee quality and prestige of the event, publicity, etc…Then, if we follow the money…I am missing something here.

Cheers,
Pupo

It seems to me like the world of photojournalism more and more resembles the advertising world.

Isn’t the content of our work supposed to be more important than the ability of the photojournalist to pay her or his way to “unparalleld platforms of exposure” such as this new award?

Maybe we should all start buying ad space in trash celebrity mags (I suppose that’s the ultimate platform of exposure these days) to get our stories to the public?

Also, it worries me that only people with the financial means can survive in our business. It creates a homogenous group of working photojournalists, that I fear could affect the way the world is portrayed.

Unfortunately this new award is only one of many examples. Whoever heard of paying for a portfolio review some years ago? Now it seems common practice.

Workshops in exotic places for outrageous amounts of money also seem to be a popular way of making a living now that nobody wants to pay for the actual work of photographers.

There are of course positive examples. The most important award is still free. The World Press Photo organization is amazing. And their master classes, workshop programs in third world countries and other initiatives to make photojournalism acessible to everybody are remarkable.

From what I hear Barnstorm is also free and a great way for american photographers to get a kick start to their carreers.

Another fantastic “organisation” is Lightstalkers. Providing the tools for us to bitch about the grim reality of it all and feeling collectively sorry for ourselves. Jokes aside, it’s really a great forum that let’s us discuss these things.

Hi LS folks; new T&C now up; tightened usage, added restrictions to NYPH/NYPHA uses (PR/promo/edu/info), and took out commercial use and that dreaded phrase, in perpetuity. Our web interfacer guy copped it for page holding prior to check out, and we did not go back and look at it, which we should have. So….thanks for catching this. And Michael will contact you directly about the lower fee rate for those needing it.

daniel – Thank you so much for your concern and fast action!

Thanks, Daniel. I will definitely cough up the money to enter now. Btw, any discount?

Max, Daniel wrote And Michael will contact you directly about the lower fee rate for those needing it.
Which means I think he will post a message here..

My 2 cents worth ;)))…

though i loathe art awards and especially art/photo competitions (across the board), I have to tell you if I were going to
participate in a competition this would be one of them…let me offer why:

While i thought, too, the intial T&C statement was depressing and (sadly) indicative of the state of things in general these days,
I believe in the NYPhotoFestival as a place to swallow, chew upon and tickle beneath a great river of contemporary photography.!
More important, Daniel’s swift, honest, genuine and considered approach and reaction to this threat is a very succinct example of
his integrity and the integrity of this organization. That he quickly addressed concerns raised above without resorting to a nomenclature
of threatening language or reacted cyncially or poo-pooped the issues above is really a fine example of what each of us, as photographers
and folk simple wish for all: respect, countenance and genuine trust.

Also, frankly, the fees are absolutely NOT exhorbitant, not at all when one considers: the jury, the exposure (i dont mean the
old photos for free bullshit, we’re an art rag nonsense) but I mean the genuine and interested reaction by many (photographers, editors,
collectors, ams/pros, folk) who will see this work as it sifts over that lovely ’hood in Brooklyn!

I would say: damn the torpedoes and go for it. The jury is great, the festival is great, Powerhouse Books is great, etc…

Daniel’s posts and actions, to me, are just an example of the kind of honesty, integrity and grit that is way too fucking
absent in this cynical profession. And hell, I dont even know the guy!

Good luck y’all! :))

cheers
bob

Well said, Bob. We also have to credit Santanu for posting the original T&C here which led to Daniel’s thoughtful remedy.

link?

www.nyphotofestival.com
www.newyorkphotoawards.com

Thanks Max!! Its my pleasure that I am able to contribute positively to Lightstalkers, how much small that contribution might be.