Ouch my back - belt system or chestvest?

It’s not just your back. My neck is pretty well messed up as a result of weight on my right shoulder. Go figure. I presently use the Think Tank system and it works well. I’ve tried to lighten up as much as possible in addition to getting stuff off my shoulder and the Think Tank system has worked well. It’s expensive and there’s alot of options so shop carefully. They offer “suspenders” which have been recommended to me by a photographer who said he felt like his pants were going to be pulled down by just the weight of the “belt” system. If you have a lot of “stuff” you should consider the suspenders. All the bags are well thought out. Good luck (& get that bag off your shoulder).

For years I was a shoulder bag user, and my neck and shoulders were always soar. I’ve switched to the Think Tank belt system. I like it a lot. I think it has a few small flaws…..



First the belt clips slip causing it to loosen while shooting. They claim they have fixed this with some free clips they provide, but I still have a problem with it. A freind who uses the system has placed velcro to hold down the extra belt and said this fixed the slipping problem.



Second, the belts are thin and offer little to no back support. When spending a long day wieghted down by gear my lower back will realy start to burn. Other than that Think Tank is well constructed with quick and easy to access.



I also advise a good massage therapist to work on those shoulders every so often, becuase bag or no bag those heavy cameras will do some damage to nerves and muscles over time.

I got to play around with Blackwater Gear and while it looks a little bit military, it does spread the weight and is very adaptable. A lot of the SF guys use it and you can add all sorts of pouches and pockets to it. I try to spread the weight around the body.



Also, I tried out the new Oakley boots (of cool shades fame). They use a very grippy sort of compound in the sole and are ultra light. The new ones have a heel block which is much better than the flat sole when it comes to jamming on the brakes or climbing over uneven surfaces.

http://www.blackwatergear.com

http://oakley.com/

I recently purchased the ThinkTank Speed Freak and the Lens Changer 80.  I am extreemly happy with the quality of the system as well as the functionality.  It’s nice to use the waist pack as a place to rest the camera between shots.  The Lens Changer 80 holds the 70-200 Nikon with the lens shade attached.  The Lens Changer 75 is a bit shorter and the shade has to be removed to completely fit inthe case.



Jim

Tengku – You’re exactly right about the noise from the Velcro on the Chestvest… in quieter assignments it’s good to flip the covers back behind, and tuck them in between your body and the vest. I think some of the decision depends on what your needs are. The Chestvest, for instance, is particularly good in active situations, as it straps very close to your body and won’t move around much when you’re on the go. Also, it’s really good in situations where you might be sitting down a lot. One drawback of the belt systems is that they can make it impossible to sit in a chair with arms, get in and out of a taxi quickly, etc.

I too would like some kind of belt rig for my gear. But I’m not gonna’ wear something that looks like paramilitary ammo webbing. That shit will get you killed in certain unnamed destinations. Mikethehack, I like the idea of that blackwater belt, but how do you hook your stuff on? Are those metal loops for gear or suspendors? Could you loop on small DOMKE bags, or is the belt too thick?
Teru, if you’re out there what is that little belt set up that you use?
For those of you who arent paranoid about getting nabbed or sniped by Gringo hating guerrillas, or work in non-threatening locals I’ve heard great stuff about NEWS WEAR chest packs. Never tried one myself.
EKH

I use a North Face waist bag that doubles as a shoulder bag… I’ve kept coming back to it over the past four years. It’s the kind that has a padded/insulated drink holder on each side that works well for quick access to a 16-35 or 70-200. In a tight crowd, It’s not as secure because the lenses are pretty much out in the open. I have been looking into a waist belt system, but haven’t been sold on anything yet. I saw a news guy today with a port-a-brace set up that looked pretty sweet. Eros, did you mean a Newswear chestvest?

Eros,

I haven’t tried Domke gear on it, but the principle is that you can attach the pouches anywhere you want to spread the weight. I messed around with it and it was fairly practical. As for looking paramilitary? I think anything outside of a pair of jeans (adventure clothes,travel gear) could be considered paramilitary.i.e. anything with more than two pockets.

Or else try these: http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productid=9171&TabId=1 Apparently they were designed by an undercover cop who wanted to be able to carry gear but look casual.

At the end of the day the pouches for carrying lenses,batteries or bullets and bombs won’t be very different, so it’s just a matter of interpretation and how the guy on the trigger is feeling.

Hi guys,



I’d second Mike’s suggestion on the Oakley boots.  I have been using their Elite Special Forces boot and it is superb.  Very grippy sole and it is just as comfy as my sneakers.  They don’t weight much more than sneakers, either.  I used to work in Special Operations for my local Emergency Services so I’m a bit of a gear nut.  If you want to use any military equipment to carry your kit I’d highly reccomend Lightfighter Tactical.  They carry a wide assortment, have quick service, and are always willing to help via phone or email to find you just what you need.  I’m not affiliated at all, I’ve just purchased most of my Special Ops duty gear from them. 



www.lightfighter.com



And on top of this, there are many custom gear manufacturers that make quality kit to your specs.  It’s not cheap, but if you need something you can’t find, its a viable option.  High Speed Gear is one gear shop I can think of, but I’m not sure what their backlog is like now. 



For pants, try looking into the Royal Robbins Tactical 5.11 Pants.  Depending on the color they can be somewhat non-descript and have several pockets as well as being reinforced in specific areas for active jobs.  Those jeans from USCav seem interesting, but I bet they’d get real big as soon as you load up the pockets.  Sure it won’t look paramilitary, but you’ll be buldging from every side and that might not make you very flexible. 



Personally, I’m just using a some cheap waist pack I got from EMS at the moment.  It doesn’t look all the great, but it gets the job done.  The belt kits seem a little too complex for my simple needs right now. 

Mike, I wear Jeans, but then again so do half the AUC in Colombia. It’s the chest web-gear that gives them away. And the gold chains. I don’t wear webbing for the same reason I don’t wear Che T-shirts or American flags on my backpack, or gold chains for that matter. To each his own. It’s a shame that all the best gear has a destinctive military look. The chest vest does seem practical. But like I said, I’m paranoid.

So I’m a bit of a gear freak like Mike and I spend quite a bit of my time wandering around specialist hardare stores messing with their tools and basically being nosey.



I have being wearing Fjall Raven clothes for years and while they are quite expensive, do seem to last longer than the average. As for spreading the weight and saving the joints (the holy grail of photographers I suppose, short of the first photo of the Second Coming) I bought a couple of the Fjall Raven Adventurer jackets which had (I think they stopped producing them) 25 pockets in various sizes. It was more or less one big pocket (Fjall Raven are big on pockets) and you could spread a lot of stuff all over the bloody thing.

The sleeves zipped off and so did the hood and what with one of their shirts and a pair of their trousers, I would probably have in the region of around 40 pockets and fully loaded looked really rather sad,sort of like the Michelin Man. I should add that like Mr Frantel, I’m not affiliated with anyone (except Saint Jude).



Go to the ‘Travel’ section and check out the ‘Multi Jacket’ (it’s a bit Stanley and Livingstone safari or Amanpour if you like) but it is the closest I can see to what I have (darker neutral colours would be nice btw).

http://www.fjallraven.se/en/products.htm



 The upside of Fjall Raven gear is the amount of pockets (some are hidden) and low profile style they employ (no bright decals on some stuff, no fancy bits and bobs) and practicality. I have worn the gear in very hot and cold climes, but that is a matter of fitness as much as the anything. Oh, and it doesn’t look very paramilitary.



The downside is the cost (it’s relative) and the material, while hardwearing,is a little thin with regards to the kind of wear and tear it would take from heavy lenses and batteries over a long period (in my case 2 years of constant/daily abuse). The linings need to be made of a stronger material. 

Oh yeah, and they are kind of hard to find. Easy in parts of mainland Europe and apparently nearly impossible in the US and the rest of the world, even the UK.



If you plan to travel relatively lightly with say, 2 bodies (pared down for lightness), 3 lenses and a couple of flashes and batteries, water bottle/first aid kit etc then I think it is do-able. If you also plan to hump a laptop then hmmm….get one tailored I suppose. The law of averages says that someone must have figured this out already.



As for jeans that are hard wearing with big pockets?

Skate boarder clothes are ball park for that. These guys spent as much time falling on their asses as the rest of us and tearing all manner of joints. Always worth a look.

I am surprised no one has mentioned  Lowepro kit, they do a range of backpacks and a belt system check out  http://www.lowepro.com/Products/



Martin

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Sorry it took me awhile to reply.

Took up Edward and Mike Frantel’s idea of using a conventional waist pack to carry camera gear, and ended up buying a decent-sized convertible waist pack made by EMS (the ‘Freedom Fanny’ model, if anyone’s interested). Not specifically designed for photo gear, but I have enough space for my basic shooting kit with two lenses and a flash unit, plus battery packs. It also converts to a shoulder bag and has a removable harness built-in. Meanwhile I’m hoping to find some partitions to sort out the inside of the bag. We’ll see how well this thing holds up in the next couple months. 

Tengku – I use a the domke replacement divider’s that they sell for their bags in my Mountainsmith Tour. May work in your Northface as well. I’ve gone that route a lot though presently have a variety of pouches that I switch out on my “ThinkTank” belt system. Oh, and Mike – Jeff at Penn Camera sent me the Tri-glides to keep the buckles from slipping no problem. Good luck, JLee

I switched from a shoulder bag to a NewsWear Chestvest after suspecting the shoulder bag was behind a little back pain and the intermittent feeling that I needed to pop my neck. I’m completely sold on it—no back pain, no neck popping and the gear doesn’t bounce around when running or climbing. No fumbling for equipment. Like someone above said, just make sure to open the velcro flaps and tuck them between vest and body BEFORE a quiet assignment—that velcro is strong and it can be loud. One slight drawback is the appearance—in Guatemala recently, I heard an old Mayan man tell his friend I looked like a suicide bomber…

I was shooting voters yesterday and someone turned around and grabbed my arm to look at me, and then laughed and said he thought I had a bomb around me…

but besides that, I love my chest vest – its the Newswear one. I just got it a few months ago, after realizing my already bad shoulder couldn’t take the Domke anymore. It works really well for everyday use, and is very easy to move around and sit in. With the quiet assignments, you definitely need to tuck the flaps behiind the back because the velcro is loud, but that’s not really been a big deal. It’s nice because if i’m trying to jump out of the car quickly, I can throw it over my shoulder, without my gear falling out, until I get situated and then put it on properly. I usually just use it over both shoulders – without the belt strapped – but it’s there for the longer assignments to add some support when you need it.

I definitely recomend it.

Bahar….

Hey, I just bought a tank bag for my motorcycle and turned it into a camera kit. My neighbor here in Dharamsala did all the stiching and then didn’t charge me anything. I think the whole thing (inserts) cost about 500 rupees after I gave her some money becuase she wouldn’t except any I had to pass it in an envelope. You know how it is here. Anyways… I think I’m done trying to find the right bag. There is so much more joy in creating my own for exactly what I need. Next time your in Dharamsala just bring any bag that would work for you… or just a construction back support… and we can fix it into exactly what you need… WITHOUT MAJOR COST. Come see me at the restaurant next time your in town and we’ll work it out. And… IF THERE ARE ANY MOTORCYCLE DRIVERS OUT THERE who what to bring your kit along… I just created the sweetest bag that easily holds my d70 with 70-200 AF-S attached, flash, plus room for 5 or 6 additional lenses, bateries, cables, etc. etc. The thing sits right over the gas tank between your legs so that you can shoot even while straddeling the bike. Holds onto the tank with magnets… I whent for a drive and it was quite secure. Next week I take it for the real test. Two days on the bike … one 10hr day and then following 8hrs. PLUS it has a shoulder strap for easy carying off the bike.

Bahar… don’t spend tons of money… Just get a back support construction belt and we can fix it up here next time you come by to fit YOUR needs… If you can hold out of corse…

See you soon hopefully….

Jeremy

Hey, Tengku. I travel light and use a Lowepro light belt and a variety of lens pouches and bags to contain my two extra zoom lenses, flash, CF cards, batteries and stuff. I’m much more mobile that way, both arms are free to move. I also thought of Newswear’s Chestvest, but I would look very odd — even like a suicide bomber — in the middle of Manhattan and that’s not funny at all considering the paranoia here. (I think the Chestvest is best for disaster/conflict/sports photography situations but not in the city, as in street photographer mode.) I use a ThinkTank Whip-It-Out for my 70-200mm. f/2.8 Canon lens. It’s really good. The Lowepro belt is very well-designed and durable. This is its third year of nearly-daily use by me. You don’t have to wear the belt-with-gear around your waist all the time and as kinda converts into a shoulder bag especially in tight places like inside a cab. Goodluck.

Get a spine transplant.

A friend of mine who is a photographer himself is manufacturing various camera bags and harness systems you can check his website at www.griffgear.com everything is made by hand and from quality materials and he is also able to make things to order

I used Domke belt pouches for years but they wear out very quickly, they don’t close well and are not waterproof…I switched to the NEWSWEAR belt system about a year ago and apart from the velcro noise in some situations, I have only praise for them, tough, practical, tough, well designed, tough, various sizes, tough etc…oh, and did I mention tough?
They are made in Mexico but they will ship them to you for next to nothing all over the world…www.newswear.com

I’m looking for two things 1) A jacket with plenty of pockets ON THE INSIDE. 2) A small shoulder camera bag that has compartments that will securely close. My Domke bags are useless for working in crowded situations because anyone can slip their hand inside or open the velcro side pockets. I have had enough of worrying about pickpockets when I should be concentrating on the pictures! I also want to try to avoid looking silly, dressed up as a “photographe baroudeur” as they call them here in Paris… All advice would be gratefully welcomed.

I use both a belt system and the Chestvest. I use the belt system (Thinktank) for day to day stuff because it can hold a ton of stuff and is fairly comfortable. Certainly better than a shoulder bag. I use the Chestvest when I know I am getting in and out cars a lot – like when following a political candidate. My Chestvest does not hold as much stuff as the Thinktank kit and it does not “breathe” so when I am wearing it in Arizona in the summer it is really, almost unbearably, hot. Both the Newswear Chestvest and Thinktank stuff are extremely well made. I think the Thinktank stuff is better designed (for example they include waterproof rain covers for all their components) and they use zippers rather than velcro so stuff is more secure and using the system is quieter. Also, Thinktank has excellent support, their lead designer hangs out on the Sportshooter web site forums. But access is quicker in the Newswear Chestvest. The bottom line is that both work well, and both are better for you than should bags. Which you go with is up to you. If possible I would try them both. Jack

Another vote for the Newswear pouches!
According to the doctors my back adapted a slight S-curve from a chronic one sided wheight to the left shoulder, needless to say after hearing this I couldn’t wait to get my hands on the belt..

Also, Mike already said this, but check out the fjall raven iceland jackets. Plenty of conveniently large pockets, breathable, lightweight and durable. I have one and it fits a load of stuff without becoming overly bulky.

If you still want an inconspicuous shoulder bag, the NorthFace messenger bags are waterproof, zippable and extremly durable. They’re also heavy as hell when fully loaded, and quite expensive but worth the price if your back is still in working condition. You’ll need inserts though. For the bag, and probably for your back after a year of use. (-:

There is an AP photographer in Australia …. Rob Griffith …… who hand makes a great over one shoulder harness.
Hard to describe ……… but if you go to his website …….. http://www.griffgear.com/pages/RTAIL.htm ……… you’ll see what I mean!
He’ll also consider custom alterations to suit the individual. Very reasonably priced too.
Cheers, Brian Cassey

There is an AP photographer in Australia …. Rob Griffith …… who hand makes a great over one shoulder harness.
Hard to describe ……… but if you go to his website …….. http://www.griffgear.com/pages/RTAIL.htm ……… you’ll see what I mean!
He’ll also consider custom alterations to suit the individual. Very reasonably priced too.
Cheers, Brian Cassey

Thanks much for all the suggestions. An update on the setup I ended up getting, an EMS Freedom Fanny pack that I paid maybe USD$50-60 for, after about 5-6 months of near daily use:

It works pretty well. I rigged one of those Canon zippered lens pouches that comes with the 70-200/2.8L lenses on one side of the pack (wouldn’t mind upggrading to a Whip It Out lens pouch or equivalent sometime soon), and other side of the waist pack I keep a Nalgene bottle, or swap it out sometimes with a 24-70L lens when I need it (I usually leave it at home, unless shooting political grip-and-grin stuff). I don’t have any inserts in it, but in the main compartment I keep a Canon 1D series camera, a 580EX flash, and a 16-35/2.8 lens without lens hood. The pockets hold an extra battery, 1.4X converter, external battery pack for the flash, cards, and a few odds and ends. I’ve managed to squeeze a Leica M2 with a 35/2 lens inside the main compartment, but it makes the other stuff rather inaccesible if working quickly.

As for wearability, it’s pretty secure and quite mobile, though I can’t compare it to any of the Think Tank/Newswear products. I can work quickly out of it, and if I ever need to make a quick dash somewhere with my gear it works pretty well. I wouldn’t recommend keeping all that gear stashed in the pack while transporting it on your waist all the time (it starts pulling on your lower back after awhile), so I usually just carry my 1D-II outside with a lens attached, and only pack my gear away when I don’t want people to know I’m carrying loads of gear. In any case, I’m glad I’m not carrying all that stuff in a shoulder bag.

Cheers,

i switch between a domke J3 and newswear pouches on a domke belt for different ocasions. i must say the chestvest looks like the healthiest and smartest, but also the dorkiest. i think not just the ther photographers but even the locals would make fun of me if i wore that. besides, anything that looks too paramilitary is bound to get you in trouble in a war zone. soldiers use the “i thought he was a terrorist” or “that lens looked like an RPG” too often already, i don’t want give them more ammunition by wearing combat gear.
if it’s not a worry for you because you work in the city, or like the combat look, then blackwater, black-ops, and Kata make great versatile combat vests and pouch systems that are amazingly comfortable. distrubute the weight very well, and secure your gear to your body so that you can run around with nothing getting hurt.
a little tip for you velcro people. if that little noise really bothers you, take a wool sweater and run it on the velcro a few times. it’ll stick a little less but still enough, and cancel most of the noise. (use the inside of the sweater if you still want to wear it later…)

I carry a couple newswear pouches on a MilSpec belt, mostly for batteries and a lens or 2. Guilad- I’ll have a large bottle of raki with our names on when I get back to Istanbul from Baghdad in a coupel weeks.

cool! finally somebody serious on this forum! i’ll be back from Afghanistan next Tuesday, give me a call when you’re back.
G.

I was thinking of buying the newswear chestvest “female” medium version for Israel. I, on the other hand, would rather
have a bad back than be shot for looking like a terrorist. I’m quite skinny too, so everything would look dorky on me,
like as if the chestvest is walking around with the girl…
Any thoughts and suggestions on that dear GUYS?

and women! please.. Let me know what you use. Ana, do you recommend the newswear chestvest in Israel?

newswear chestvests are awesome. I cant even feel the weight of 2 full cameras, 3 chubby 2.8 zooms, strobes, transmitters, etc. I spent years with a
bad back and continual neck pain lugging Domke and LowePro bags, thinking if I used extra-padded straps I would be OK. Wrong.

The terrorist look of chestvest is a negative factor to consider, however. Am hoping that newswear will start making them in less ominous colors
and also with more conspicuous logo patch.

Only real drawback is that the clip is in the back, not the front. Means that it always looks like a bomber belt
instead of a vest-like apparatus…though you can wear it backwards for that purpose
as long as you dont need to access your gear that often.

I tried the Newswear vest but found it put even more weight on the small of my back. Also impossible to get down in a hurry so opted for the Newswear pouches and belt. I find it very useable in everday situations and it can be slung over one shoulder like a bag if you are getting in and out of vehicles a lot. I probably have too many pouches (2 large and 4 small) but I don’t suffer from a bad back any more!

I tried the Newswear vest but found it put even more weight on the small of my back. Also impossible to get down in a hurry so opted for the Newswear pouches and belt. I find it very useable in everday situations and it can be slung over one shoulder like a bag if you are getting in and out of vehicles a lot. I probably have too many pouches (2 large and 4 small) but I don’t suffer from a bad back any more!

I use both the chestvest and a mountainsmith bag. clearly the pros and cons of the chestvest have been discussed, but the mountainsmith is worth considering. Its called the tour and it can be used as either a shoulder bag or a waistpack, although I have found it to be a bit bulky in the waist configuration. Most importantly though it can accept a three compartment domke insert, making it a very functional camera bag, and its tall enough to take a canon 70-200 if you dont use the hood.

In relation to the chest vest, have a look at a new Sydney based company run and operated by photographers for photographers. www.griffgear.com
I have used the chest harness (verious colors); on numerous assignments including in-beds with the ADF in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The OHS friendly kit is very well designed and extremely robust. No back pain, no shoulder or neck pain. It fits (once adjusted) over any PPE (bullet proof vest). It enables the wearer to drive whilst still wearing the vest with no restrictions.

Great tips! I’m just starting out, and I’ve been carrying a small Domke around. I love it, but ven though I’m not out every day all day shooting, one-sided back pains have started to set in. I’ll be checking out the SuicieBomberWear, er, Newswear Chestvests soon.

Just a tip for the velcro: go to a sewing supply shop, buy yourself a strip of velcro in the same width as is on your pouches, and cut a few pieces down to the right length. When you have a quiet assignment, just stick one of your new loose velcro strips on either the flap or body of your piuch, effectively sealing it. No need to tuck anything anywhere any more.

I ended up getting the medium womenchestvest from newswear…didn’t wear it in Jerusalem though but in Gaza and West Bank looking like a terrorist is well appreciated! ;-) I love it and recommend it. I’m still using it in Belgium but just around my shoulder (as a normal bag). If there’s a long walk involved I buckle up.

On a related note, does anybody use the Domke backpack strap? I thought of attaching it to the F-805 (which would look on my back like a rather large schoolchildren backpack ), is it comfortable? I can’t get it locally. Thanks.

by Frantisek Vlcek | 15 Sep 2006 07:09 | Prague, Czech Republic |