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are you the next great photographer..not if Apple has anything to do with it


Apple via AmericanPhotomag.com in the US are running a comp to find the nest “Great” photographer. the only problem.. they will steal all the images see conditions
HFM U.S. Rights to Materials Provided by Users
By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data or engaging in any other form of communication (individually or collectively “Communications”) to the HFM U.S. Web Site, you grant to HFM U.S. a perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable, unrestricted, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to use, copy, license, sublicense, adapt, distribute, display, publicly perform, reproduce, transmit, modify, edit and otherwise exploit such Communications and any ideas or original materials contained in such Communications, in all media now known or hereafter developed. This grant shall include the right to exploit any and all proprietary rights in such Communications including, without limitation, any and all rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction. You waive all rights you may have to inspect and/or approve of any use by HFM U.S. of any material or idea submitted by you in any Communications. You waive all rights to any claim against HFM U.S. for any alleged or actual infringements of any proprietary rights, rights of privacy and publicity, moral rights, and rights of attribution in connection with such Communications. You agree and understand that HFM U.S. is under no obligation to use any material or ideas submitted by you in any Communications in any way whatsoever, and is not responsible for maintaining, and may delete at any time, any of your Communications.

It is extremely sad that a creative company like Apple seems happy to go with conditions like these

by John Armstrong-Millar at 2007-08-24 13:08:03 UTC (ed. Mar 12 2008 ) dusseldorf , Germany | Bookmark | | Report spam→

That is sad, and correct me if i am wrong you can only be the next great photographer if you own a mac

by [former member] | 24 Aug 2007 13:08 | Dhaka, Bangladesh | | Report spam→
Alfred Eisendstaedt didn’t own the rights to any of his work and that did not stop him from being a great photographer.

by A H Henry | 24 Aug 2007 13:08 | S E Michigan, United States | | Report spam→
Sad to read your comment Henry. The rights over our pix is the only thing we have. Alfred worked in a gold times for photography for one of the most powerful magazines. There is no more such situation. I remember you what said Arnold Newman, “take care of your archives and then they will take care for you”. Good luck

by Hernan Zenteno | 24 Aug 2007 15:08 (ed. Aug 25 2007) | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
It makes you wonder if anyone in the companies concerned, other than the rights lawyer and their intern, ever reads this stuff. Who would ever enter a competition with these conditions?

It’s completely nuts. PHC.

by Paul Hardy Carter | 24 Aug 2007 16:08 | Monte Pego, Spain | | Report spam→
Seriously, I’m getting tired of seeing one competition after the other, each one with shittier terms and conditions than the last one.

Lightstalkers is a pretty big community, with some of the most known PJ’s out there as members. We should make petitions where everyone signs, or downright pissed off and angry letters to the people behind these things.

Most people dont read terms and conditions, simply because they dont think a company like Apple, who depends on proffesional creatives, would fuck them over like that.

I’m not much of a writer, but if anyone ever wrote a public letter to any company, publication, or event that exploits young and aspiring photographers like HFM and Apple are doing here, I’d sign it in a heartbeat and post the link on every single forum I know.

by Shahriar Nouri | 24 Aug 2007 20:08 | Oslo, Norway | | Report spam→
Reminds me of the Magnum refusal to cover the development of the Olympic infrastructure in London, the contract for which claimed all rights. You’re right Shahriar – we should all do something about this trend. Count me in. PHC.

by Paul Hardy Carter | 24 Aug 2007 21:08 (ed. Aug 24 2007) | Monte Pego, Spain | | Report spam→
…so who wants to do the writing?

by Shahriar Nouri | 25 Aug 2007 13:08 | Oslo, Norway | | Report spam→
Eisenstaedt was a great photographer and was paid a living salary perks medical benifits a pension etc anyone know employment like that now for a photographer? Granted great photography is not directly related to commercial viability indeed generally they are mutually exclusive That is NOT the point here. Great artistry should not make a billion dollar company richer at the EXPENSE of an artist. Listen I am priveleged enough to pursue my own vision and craft at my own expense, but I understand the consequences. I shoot for myself at my own expense When someone wants me to shoot something for them ( their idea parsed through my vision) it costs them. Apple or any other company for that matter should not make money off a photographer who barely makes a living.
If you are an artist pursuing your own vision you dont need Apple to put you on a pedastal you create not for fame but for beauty.
The saddest thing is that many people do enter these competions ( some without rewading the fine print) . In reality they crown the mediocre but that is apt for our society. Speaking of Newman they used one of his p-hotos of Picassos for their Think Different ad. I know they paid a lot of money and didnt own any other rights for that image, Think Different ? How about be different.

by Jay Colton | 28 Aug 2007 20:08 | new york, United States | | Report spam→
really interesting rules. case study i may say.

by [former member] | 28 Aug 2007 22:08 | Nicosia, Cyprus | | Report spam→
What they are doing is outrageous, too many organisations are doing this rights grabbbing stuff now. I notice many of you want to do something about it. I’ve started a campaign at Pro-Imaging.org on the recent Corbis rights grabbing issue.

In it you will find full details of correspondence with and replies from the Corbis Directors, the competition judges, details of a press release issued world wide to over 100 news outlets connected to the creative industries, and one astonishing email from Shawn Carkonen of Corbis.

In my view this is “legalised plagiarism”, it’s a vehicle for harvesting creative submissions, and through the T&C’s of this competition allow Corbis Corporation to use the submissions as they wish “in perpetuity and throughout the universe”.

Karla Zimmerman of Corbis said in her correspondence with me that they will only ever use the submissions to promote the competition and credit the winning entries. So I redrafted the relevant T&C’s so that Corbis would have appropriate usage rights and the person submitting the entry would retain full ownership rights.

In Karla’s replies regarding this proposal she said the legal department had said they could not change the T&C’s. Check out the full details at the above link, which contains contact details for the Corbis directors involved, the man who conceived this idea, Jim Haven of Creature, and all the judges.

Please use these contact details to write to them expressing your outrage at this blatant theft of artistic rights.

If any of you are interested in getting a group of like minded individuals together, who are willing to take action and make a bloody nuisance of them selves everytime this happens please contact me and we can discuss together how we can make a difference in future.

by Gordon C Harrison | 15 Sep 2007 08:09 | Scotland, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
One of the problems is also that so many “hobby” photographers are happy if their picture is published somewhere, they dont care if they get paid or have no rights on their pictures anymore. the important thing is that the picture is printed somewhere…thats what makes them happy.

by [former member] | 15 Sep 2007 08:09 | Ibiza, Spain | | Report spam→
I agree with that Stefan. Do you feel then that we are fighting a lost cause and now that the devaluation of photography has started the genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back?

I do think this depressing thought from time to time. Yet the stock agencies and other big players in this business are utterly dependent on photographers for their profits. Without the image makers they are nothing.

Part of the problem is that photographers tend to be individuals, whose associations do not fight for their rights as they should. The individual photographer is weak. If somehow all photographers could be persuaded to withdraw their image collections from Getty, Corbis, Alamy, etc and form a library that acted on behalf the members it might even up the playing field.

I think that too is unlikely due to self interest, and the fact that although income from stock libraries, massively reduced now to what it was, is still extremely important to some photographers to keep body and soul together.

Yet, I keep coming back to the thought that without the image makers the stock agencies are nothing. So there is a strength there if we can figure out how to use it.

by Gordon C Harrison | 15 Sep 2007 09:09 | Scotland, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
Difficult Gordon,I have body and soul together for my photographic work, I make no compromises, my work does not go out for “nothing” to some stock image agency s, I am proud of it. I am self employed and dont life from photography, and very important: I dont want to life from photography. the reasons are very easy to understand: I want to be free, I want to live without worrying about how to cover my expenses for tomorrow… I want to photograph what I want, without compromises, without constant worry about the tomorrow.

I think there are too many people out there taking pictures. what is needed to be called “photographer”? you press the shutter and you are one, at least for the agencies who want quick and cheap work, quality isn’t a requirement it seems to me. some would even pay to see their pictures published, instead of getting paid. if you browse through websites or blogs, you very often see where people have published their work, appearing is more important than anything else for some.

best Stefan

by [former member] | 15 Sep 2007 10:09 (ed. Sep 15 2007) | Ibiza, Spain | | Report spam→
It really spreads what they’re doing, seems so common that soon it will be normal and keeping the right on the own work will be wrong?

by eva mbk | 16 Sep 2007 10:09 | Tuscany, Italy | | Report spam→
yeah maybe we should all right Steve Jobs a letter to see if he minds that we nick the rights to Leopard by HIM giving us one copy…

by John Armstrong-Millar | 16 Sep 2007 20:09 | dusseldorf, Germany | | Report spam→
Lisa Wiltse….

You are Wrong!
You don’t need a MAC to be (te next great) good!
Maybe We sould met more lawyers,… than photographers…?


by Alain Bañon | 17 Sep 2007 20:09 | Higuey, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
I totally agree that conditions like those are very sad, but being a photographer from a third world country where the news very few times are of any interest to the rest of the world I have to say that if I would’t have a job right now I would consider applying. Opportunities like those are very few, and photography is not very well paid here, so I think that many third world country’s photographers would apply.

I’d like to sign the protest letter.

by Agustin Fernandez | 17 Sep 2007 21:09 | Montevideo, Uruguay | | Report spam→
Augustin, I can understand you, but this is called exploitation in my book, by companies known such as the above (Apple) I would expect more seriousness and most of all respect for the next and their work. All this boils down to having the power to act as they do for economical reasons.

by eva mbk | 18 Sep 2007 05:09 | Tuscany, Italy | | Report spam→
Yes, of course it is exploitation, and I totally agree with you Eva. My point was just that when you don’t have many opportunities you could consider being exploited, and the reality of photojournalism in my country could take many people to take that decision. I repeat, I totally agree with you and would like to sign a protest letter.

by Agustin Fernandez | 18 Sep 2007 12:09 | Montevideo, Uruguay | | Report spam→

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John Armstrong-Millar, Photographer John Armstrong-Millar
Pau , France
A H Henry, Retired A H Henry
S E Michigan , United States
Hernan Zenteno, Photographer Hernan Zenteno
Buenos Aires , Argentina ( EZE )
Paul Hardy Carter, Photographer Paul Hardy Carter
(meet Triumph and Disaster...)
London , United Kingdom ( LHR )
Shahriar Nouri, Photographer Shahriar Nouri
Oslo , Norway
Jay Colton, photographer /photoeditor Jay Colton
photographer /photoeditor
New York , United States
Gordon C Harrison, Landscape Photographer Gordon C Harrison
Landscape Photographer
Scotland , United Kingdom
eva mbk, cabby eva mbk
Tuscany , Italy ( SAY )
Alain Bañon, Freelance photographer Alain Bañon
Freelance photographer
Higuey , Dominican Republic
Agustin Fernandez, Freelance photojournalist Agustin Fernandez
Freelance photojournalist
(uruguay "south america")
Montevideo , Uruguay ( MVD )


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