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Copyright Violations Online - 911 photos - Look for your photos!

I found this link today. It has many of our photographs on it, all for sale (through shutterfly) and a lot without bylines.
(the link to purchase the photos is under the image on the lower right side. there are 3 buttons, the one in the middle has colored circles on it and directs you to shutterfly to purchase prints)

http://www2.bargerhuff.com:2020/Family/Interest/9-11/index.htm

If you shot in NYC on or around 911 you should check out this link.

I think it is a private family’s website, but the fact that they are selling our photos and have some photos without bylines makes it upsetting to me.

I did not notify the family yet, I wanted everyone here to have a chance to findout if their work was there first.

by Aaron Lee Fineman at 2005-08-16 20:02:18 UTC (ed. Mar 12 2008 ) Brooklyn, NY , United States | Bookmark | | Report spam→

Aaron,

Nice catch. This is bad. Very bad. They’re breaking all sorts of copyright infringement laws here. They’ve got to be aware of this, some of the images are even low res files, clearly lifted from the web, including quite a few with original caption info right on the file. Way too many familiar images there on this site illegally. I see work from most of the working pros, wires and agencies who were there that day. I’m going to pass this link onto our photo dept. administrators as well as all the photogs I know.

-Chet Gordon.
photo editor & photographer /
NY Daily News.

by [former member] | 18 Aug 2005 15:08 (ed. Aug 18 2005) | NYC, United States | | Report spam→
I went to take a second look at the page and it seems they have gotten rid of it. the home page for the site reads:

You have reached the Internet home of Michael and Karen Bargerhuff,

Any of you have a little talk with them?

by Jon Anderson | 19 Aug 2005 15:08 | St Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
I sent them an email and they said that it was not supposed to be on their public internet site and then they put up the password protection notice.

I informed them that they are not permitted to display public or privately those photographs and that they are not permitted to sell prints.

by Aaron Lee Fineman | 19 Aug 2005 15:08 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
I sent them an email and they said that it was not supposed to be on their public internet site and then they put up the password protection notice.

I informed them that they are not permitted to display public or privately those photographs and that they are not permitted to sell prints.

by Aaron Lee Fineman | 19 Aug 2005 15:08 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
but it seems that the pages in question are off the site, not just password protected, because I searched around and came across the password protection device but only in regards to other pages, not the pages in question, or have they moved things around a bit? This guy seems to be like a news buff or something, cuz he has loads of links to news services and even keeps track of the news headlines on his site. I would write him off as a harmless nerd, except that this kind of thing goes too far. Are you keeping tabs on him? You want others to write to him?

by Jon Anderson | 19 Aug 2005 16:08 | St Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
I am not too concerned about this guy. But when I saw that there was a link on each photo to buy prints online I got concerned. I agree that perhaps he is a bit of a news-buff, but I think it is a bit sick to show such a large gallery of 9/11 as he did. The thing that really bothered me is that some of the photos did not have any bylines on them (including one of mine). If he just displayed my photos with a photo credit, no big deal, but to sell them and to have some of them without any byline, that is troubling to me. But I am not loosing any sleep over it. I posted here so that others could see what was up there to decide on their own what they wanted to do.

by Aaron Lee Fineman | 19 Aug 2005 16:08 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
I agree entirely with your assessment, but I wonder whether he aquiesced in your demand or has hidden access to the photos instead of deleting the pages. I didnt see any of mine, but enough of everybody else’s to get me irritated enough to act on it. however, if he has hidden the photos away with a password access instead of cooperating, I will definitely call him out on it, in a nice way of course.

by Jon Anderson | 19 Aug 2005 16:08 | St Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
I told him what he should do. I can not be the internet police for people who want to violate copyrights. At least he now knows what he is doing or did is wrong.

by Aaron Lee Fineman | 19 Aug 2005 16:08 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
I saw the offending page before it was removed, after Aaron’s initial post, and whether or not his intent was to spread information or memorialize, the fact remains that, at least initially, the photos were hot-linked for purchase (with undoubtedly both he and Shutterfly profiting). The fact remains that theft is still theft (even with a name/photo credit), the intent was there to profit wrongfully. While, philosophically, I do not believe in “ownership” of images (akin to ownership of land), I believe strongly in “ownership” of work/responsibility. We must all remain vigilant because the simple practic is this: I have to pay my rent and I must feed my wife and son. As a photographer and a teacher, I fully understand that my photographs and my work as a photographer is to act as a conduit to the life which surrounds me. As a teacher, I am not teaching so much as opening up (i hope ;)) those catacombs of light which we all possess. While I do not claim ownership to the ideas inside my work or the techniques/metaphysics which underlie my teaching (breathing for that matter ;) ), I insist that my students understand that work is, in the end, the means of our breathing. Stealing from someone else (photographers,teachers, thinkers, store owners for that matter) is not a material problem so much (although it does stick us where it hurts) but a spiritual one. This guy (and everyone else out there bottom feeding) needs to be confronted. I applaud both of you, Aaron and Jon, for your vigilance and temperment. What people dont often realize is something very simple: using/profiting from someone else’s work actually has a simple and profound effect: it drains from the resources by which we house and feed and enliven our families. These guys (both the corporate dudes and the small raiders) never seem to understand that elemental truth. Bravo to both of you!. Thanks, Bob

by [former member] | 20 Aug 2005 10:08 | Toronto, by way of the States, Canada | | Report spam→
Bob,
I spoke with Shutterfly on the phone and they told me that the link to them was from an action script in a program called “Gallery” and that the photographs were not on the Shutterfly server but that when you clicked on the link it sent to image to them to print and sell to you one time. That means that the family who set up the gallery is not profiting from the sale of the photographs. But it is still theft. I think that we need to educate online printers like Shutterfly that they should not sell prints of copyrighted photographs. The sad fact is that now the copyrights of most news photographs are being owned by the company who hires the freelance photographer and not by the photographer.

by Aaron Lee Fineman | 20 Aug 2005 12:08 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
Aaron: I agree completely with the notion of educating Shutterfly and others. Incidentally, 5 1/2 years ago, several of my friends from Russian and I discovered some of our photographs for sale on E-Bay! Can you imagine? At the time, a number of my friends, including some great international photographers from Russia (like my friends Sergie Maximishin and Eugenia Mohorev)and I used to “exhibit” our work at a Russian run photography site. When the sight was begun (www.photosight.ru) a long time ago the concept was to promote through the web photography. I, even as a non-Russian, was very active and one of the most enthusiastic as an initial participant. About a year later, a friend of my from California, notified me that he had seen one of my photographs for sale on Ebay. Horrified, I took a look and discovered a number of photographs (and photographers) who had participated at the site. After extensive communication with Ebay and lawsuit threats, we eventually discovered that this Ebay “member” had not oly been selling/auctioning images (and printing the images of course digitally) but had a growing reputation. Once Ebay was informed, the member was banned and some kind of investigation was involved. Most of the photographers whose work had been stolen were from Moscow and Petersburg. In the end, we’ve all since learned to place watermarks and other defining characteristics on any images posted on the web, but it was a reminder that there are alot of cretins who live off of others. The family you discovered also does not bother me, since I trust that his was not an attempt to “steal.” But, unfortunately, we’re haunted by all this, especially with the ubiquity of images (all of our images) scattered like bones everywhere. It’s frustrating, because as a photographer I ask little. My prints (silver gelatin) are not expensive and when I’ve sold my images to organizations (like webpages, magazines, etc), I’ve tried to be really lenient. I simply wish that people understood that “property,” “copyright” and “intellectual property” are abstractions which carry very simple, material, practical realities: I need them to feed, house and sustain my family. Again, I really think you’ve done good work Aaron by following up. If I were in Brooklyn, I’d buy you a Guiness! :) thanks, bob

by [former member] | 20 Aug 2005 15:08 | Toronto, by way of the States, Canada | | Report spam→
Perhaps we meet for a Molson one day when I am in Toronto.

by Aaron Lee Fineman | 20 Aug 2005 18:08 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
deal. :)

by [former member] | 22 Aug 2005 05:08 | Toronto, by way of the States, Canada | | Report spam→

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Participants

Aaron Lee Fineman, Photographer Aaron Lee Fineman
Photographer
New York City , United States
Jon Anderson, Photographer & Writer Jon Anderson
Photographer & Writer
Ocala Florida , United States


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