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looking for photos of Arab world revolution

Hello all,

I am the photo editor of Middle East Report magazine published by the small non-profit organization MERIP (www.merip.org) in the US.

For our next issue I am looking for photos of the revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and probably Libya. See the list below. If you have any photos you’d like me to consider for publication, please email me a link to your photos online or send SMALL sample photos to my email: mwoodward@merip.org.

As a small non-profit with a very limited budget we can only pay $100 for each photo for one-time use at any size inside the magazine (we pay more for covers) with possible usage on the website (appearing with the same article as in the print format). We will send you copies of the magazine too.

Deadline to receive your photos is March 7.

Thanks for your good work!

Best,
Michelle


Libya protests

Egypt:
Clashes on big Nile bridges on Jan. 25
Self-defense units in neighborhoods on Feb. 1
Celebrations after Mubarak steps down
Cross-sectarian (Muslims and Christians together) aspect of protests
Cross-class aspect of protests
Participation of women
People watching demos on tv in quiet locales
Shots from provincial towns — Suez (esp on Jan 25), Port Said, Asyout, Nag’ Hammadi

Tunisia:
Clashes with police before Ben Ali’s fall
Demos after Ben Ali’s fall
Participation of organized labor (unions)
Shots from provincial towns — Sid Bouzid, Kef, Kasserine
Examples of citizen journalism

by Michelle L. Woodward at 2011-02-24 09:29:43 UTC | Bookmark | | Report spam→

sent you an email.

marco

by marco salustro | 25 Feb 2011 00:02 | Rome, Italy | | Report spam→
Ive sent you an email on Libya.
thank you :)

Raffaela

by Raffaela Lepanto | 04 Mar 2011 15:03 | Milan, Italy | | Report spam→
Michelle,

I also emailed you with a download-link and images from Alexandria, Egypt.

Martin

by Martin von den Driesch | 05 Mar 2011 11:03 | Dubai, United Arab Emirates | | Report spam→
Michelle,

Why don’t you just go to Getty or some other mega-agency that exploits photographers if you’re looking for cheap images to license?

$100 per image for photographers working in dangerous conditions is insulting.

Oh well, it appears you’ve got several photographers jumping like strippers off their poles hoping to snap up your money.

Good luck to you all.

Ken

by Kenneth Jarecke | 09 Mar 2011 16:03 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
I agree with Ken.

If you dont know the prices, Fotoquote 6 is quite helpful, I use it all the time. Or ask around.
Or use this site, http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm
It’s bit outdated but its better than nothing,

$100 for any size is robbery.

Non profit or not, it should be same prices. Non profit doesnt mean they get your images for cheap or for free.
(Certainly, we all have selectively donated our images and done pro bono work for causes and organizations that WE CHOOSE).

Size of the photo, cover and circulation does matter.
Customary space rate per image(minimum). This rate has been in place past 20 years.

1/8 page: $175- $200
1/4 page: $200- $250
1/2 page: $350
3/4 page: $400
1 page: $500
spread: $1000
cover 1250, 50 % over space
including spot cover or negotiable.

Better yet, ask for it in Euros since its stronger than the Dollar.

And if your image is an unique image, you command higher price, and negotiable.

Please put a value on your work!

by [former member] | 09 Mar 2011 17:03 (ed. Mar 9 2011) | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
I agree with Ken and Yunghi

Nice post, Yunghi!
Keep going the Photojournalism Cooperative!

Tri

by Tri Saputro | 10 Mar 2011 06:03 | Jakarta, Indonesia | | Report spam→
Hi Ken and Yunghi,

I appreciate your comments and advice. I realize this is low, but there is nothing we can do about it when we have such a shoestring budget overall. We never ask for photos for free.

We do also use agency photos. But I like to see a broader range of work, when possible.

In our organization we have 2 full time people and one half time, I am a freelancer. Our circulation is also very small, about 2,000.

I purposely state in these requests for photos the amount we can afford to pay for exactly the reason you mention — so that photographers can be the ones to selectively choose if they would like to work with us. Some know our written work and appreciate our perspective on the region and thus want to contribute.

We cannot commission work, clearly we don’t have the money. So, this is a request for photos that have likely already been published or are extra stock the photographer has on hand.

Best regards,

Michelle

by Michelle L. Woodward | 10 Mar 2011 08:03 | Beirut, Lebanon | | Report spam→
Michelle,

Is the comparison “we never ask for photos for free.” Are you implying we should be thankful for that you are not asking for photos for free? Where is this entitlement mindset coming from? It didnt exist few years ago?

Do you work for 1/3 of your salary? Why would you expect photographers to?

Photographers need to push for better rates especially in this economy.

Yunghi

by [former member] | 10 Mar 2011 14:03 | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
Hi Yunghi,

Oh, no, I didn’t mean that at all. I was just pointing out a fact, since you said earlier that “Non profit doesnt mean they get your images for cheap or for free”. I was just clarifying that although we have a very limited budget for our whole operation we have always paid photographers. I realize it is not enough, that photographers deserve more, but we’ve done what we can.

I agree that photographers need good rates and need to push for them. As I said, I am not commissioning work, I was just putting out an open call for stock photos. I only expect photographers who can accept our rate to work with us. I realize that limits my choices for what photos we can use. We do our best to showcase the photos well in the magazine so that they get the attention they deserve. (We do pay more for the cover photo.)

I have no say over the budget I am allotted to use for photos, I am just trying to do the best I can with limited resources. With information such as the rates you mention I can try to make a case for a bigger budget. However, with the bad economy we are struggling too, so my budget was in fact recently cut. At MERIP we all work for quite low wages (I don’t get a salary) because we care about the work of the organization.

Anyhow, thanks again for the rate information.

Best regards,
Michelle

by Michelle L. Woodward | 10 Mar 2011 17:03 | Beirut, Lebanon | | Report spam→
Michelle,

Sorry for giving a hard time. This isnt commissioned work. This is space rate for stock images which is what you are requesting. The price that I posted is exactly that!
Whoever is in charge of the budget at your organization, your board? Please feel free to forward my comments them.

I realize this has to change at the top. Im sure photographs are big part of your magazine, and I’m sure it helps with fundraising as well…so its sad that photographers will only get $100 flat rate.

Photographers also need to speak up, and not always accept what is offered. Educate ourselves on pricing and intricacies of licensing, holding on to our copyright etc.

Best,
Yunghi

by [former member] | 10 Mar 2011 17:03 | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
Hi again,

Yes, I know those were space rates for stock. Sorry that comment was a little unclear.

The photos don’t raise money for a cause. I mean, our mission is educating people (mostly Americans) about the region through the analytical essays in our publication, so I see the photos as part of that goal. What the photos do for us is help get people interested in understanding the region better and to convey subtle information to the public via images.

Agreed on the need to negotiate, know your rights, etc.

all the best in your work,
Michelle

by Michelle L. Woodward | 10 Mar 2011 17:03 | Beirut, Lebanon | | Report spam→
Michelle,

I’ll reply to your private message here, because I think this is an important issue.

I have no problem with your offer. You’re trying to get the best possible images for your magazine at the best possible price. It’s a free-market and you can do as you wish. That said, you should realize, that in a conflict zone where cameras (and people) can easily get broken or confiscated and working expenses are much higher than normal, $100 is and insult.

I hope you can present some of this public criticism to your M.E. in an attempt to raise your budget.

I believe sarcasm is a valid form of communication (both in words and pictures) and my comparison of photographers with strippers was meant as such. Still, feelings were hurt, so at this time I offer my heartfelt apology to all of the hard working strippers out there.

Really, if a stripper was regularly selling their wares for less then what it cost to stay in business, they’d be pulling a plastic stiletto out of their back. Whereas photographers seem to cherish the chance to stab each other in the back by undercutting the marketplace. Go figure.

All the best,

Ken

by Kenneth Jarecke | 10 Mar 2011 19:03 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
Although I agree wholeheartedly with the argument that photographers’ fees have become ridiculously low and that photographers should be definitely allowed to keep their dignity in negotiating prices, I can’t help but finding peculiar that such a heated debate is held against a non-profit magazine, which is probably truly and really on a very low budget, and that, if nothing else, is helping raising consciousness of people on sensible matters, while at the same time many photographers give daily their pictures to top fashion or entertainment magazines for almost nothing, just to have their name published there for their portfolios… Again. Work and volunteering are two different things, and the two concept should be kept separate, I’m just pointing out that if the fees have become so low the fault is not entirely of the publishing industry, but also of some photographers who have lowered the value of everybody’s work. Just my two cents.

by Raffaela Lepanto | 10 Mar 2011 21:03 | Milan, Italy | | Report spam→
Thanks for your insightful comment Robert. You explained well why I try to go directly to the photographer rather than the agency when possible.

Best,
Michelle

by Michelle L. Woodward | 11 Mar 2011 08:03 | Beirut, Lebanon | | Report spam→
Raffaela,

Merip.org may be a small non profit.
but there are plenty of non profits who make lots of money. Non profit doesn’t not mean they are poor. YOu really have to know the organization.

I have heard repeatedly, that non profits regularly use " non profit " argument to get images for cheap or for free. Not all do this, but some do.

Like I said, we have choice to donate our images to causes ( non profit) of our choice, but it should not be assumed just because its non profit, you are expected to give your images away. There’s zillions of non profits.

Yunghi

by [former member] | 11 Mar 2011 14:03 (ed. Mar 11 2011) | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
Hi Michelle,

For what it’s worth, if your Middle East focus expands to include Afghanistan, we have a pretty large dataset of photographs at Basetrack that you’re welcome to use. All our work is released under Creative Commons, Non-Commercial, Attribution, No Derivatives licensing. We set the project up, among other reasons, to serve non-commercial publications like blogs and social networks – NGOs and non-profits tend to fall into a grey area, but we’re generally willing to waive fees to support underserved groups and organizations.

As others have noted, there are a lot of NGOs and non-profits that are extremely well funded (some of them seem to really stretch the definition of non-profit) and they should be billed accordingly, but it doesn’t seem productive to get dogmatic over archaic business systems, or go on the attack against well-meaning people and organizations.

all best, more power -

T

www.basetrack.org

by teru kuwayama | 11 Mar 2011 16:03 | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
Hi Teru,

Thanks for the invitation, I didn’t know about Basetrack. We do occasionally publish about Afghanistan. I often forget that “non-profit” covers such a broad range.

Our organization operates on a small budget partially because we do not take funds from any government or corporate entity. The idea is to remain independent and not beholden to any special interests.

Thanks again, your suggestion is much appreciated.

all the best,
Michelle

by Michelle L. Woodward | 11 Mar 2011 18:03 | Beirut, Lebanon | | Report spam→
Teru,

The archaic system that you seemed to pew pew on is what photographers use pretty widely still. ITs a system that you have used as well I’m sure and have benefitted from it ?

The reason for posting the archaic prices is for other photographers ( who many not know it) to help them gauge price structure. This helps in going forward in negotiations, not to be exploited. When you launched your career just few years ago, didnt you use it?

Group of photographers forming an organization and declaring non profit status such as yours and slew of others (Facing Change of America) seems to be the trend these days. More power to you for trying something new. Why not! And using Lightstalkers to promote it! Why not! Good for you!
But its not for all. Many have bills to pay and have to make a living, so its not an option of all photographers to give their images away through Creative Commons ….you understand that. I’m sure you still use this archaic price model too to supplement your income?

Im sure you have bills to pay, not all of us can afford to be away in Afghanistan for a long periods like you do! Really, enlighten us, are you able to pay all your bills, support your family solely from grant money you get thru Backtrack and giving your images away thru Creative Commons
(really, shame on you for supporting Creative Commons). Do you have a spouse who works? Has Lightstalkers gone profitable? I dont know of anyone who can…what i see is combination of lot of creative things photographer are doing now to make ends meet but also continue to do worth while projects.

So is there something wrong with wanting to get properly get paid for your work?

:)

Yunghi

by [former member] | 11 Mar 2011 20:03 (ed. Mar 11 2011) | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
Teru,

I wish you all the luck with Basetrack. However, I think the Creative Commons movement is a scam. Just my opinion of course, but I think Yunghi pegged it when she used the word “shame”. It’s shameful to promoter this non-business model (to young photographers reading this) where creators willing lose control of their copyright. Perhaps worse still is losing control of how one’s images are used. I sincerely hope that a non-profit, like that hateful group that stages protests outside of funerals of fallen soldiers, doesn’t get ahold of your images and use them for their own purposes.

I’ll stick with the archaic model, where a person has the right to get paid for what they create.

All the best,

Ken

by Kenneth Jarecke | 12 Mar 2011 03:03 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
hi Kenneth – I’d definitely be interested in hearing more about your concerns about Creative Commons – but I don’t recall that most photographers working with photo agencies were in control of who their photographs were sold or rented to. I’ve seen some pretty horrific misuse of images in news magazines, and I don’t think $175 for a quarter page made it all ok.

Yunghi’s got way more questions and exclamation points than I can attend to on a Friday night, but I’ll check in on those later.

As for the possibility that some lunatic band of homophobes tries to use Basetrack photos to harrass the families of fallen soldiers or Marines at a funeral – they can go ahead and try – and we’ll see how their first amendment stacks up against our second amendment.

by teru kuwayama | 12 Mar 2011 03:03 (ed. Mar 12 2011) | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
Calling Creative Commons movement a scam is a good way to describe it. Most who push for it are not working photographers/writers who make a living from their craft. They have incomes from salaried jobs elsewhere (academics like Lawrence Lessig with fat Harvard salary, who wants the Copyright Law gone, same for James Boyle from Duke U). Both pushing for free for all content. These people have the luxury to give away their images/books for free.,,.their livelihood doesnt depend on it. No wonder photo sharing sites like Creative Commons is the biggest threat to working freelance photographers today.

So is it responsible for Teru, owner and guru extraordinaire of Lightstalkers (where lots of young freelance photographers hang out) be flaunting Creative Commons?

:)

Yunghi

by [former member] | 12 Mar 2011 17:03 | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
Oh by the way, here’s an interesting youtube video of two respected photographers who has copyright to all their work, David Burnett and Ken Jarecke.
ITs interesting way to utilize the social media to pass on the knowledge and promote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdOWHAeBkDA&feature=email&tracker=False

by [former member] | 12 Mar 2011 18:03 (ed. Mar 12 2011) | IN New York, United States | | Report spam→
I think you forgot the embed code.

anyway -

No one’s ever called me a guru before, but if you’re going to scold me for leading young photographers down the path of mortal sin, mentioning Creative Commons seems like penny ante stuff.

I mean, seriously, among my countless infractions of social norms, I have a long history of substance abuse, bar fights, unlicensed firearms, and unroped high-altitude mountain climbing – not to mention the fact that I’ve been raising a small child on death metal and Shakira – those all seem like far graver offenses that should be given priority over disputed licensing fees.

Anyway, Saturday isn’t your day either, but I appreciate your interest, and all the questions – I’ll be strapped in on a long flight most of Monday/Tuesday, and I’ll get back to you then, I promise. At the moment, I’m visiting family in upstate NY, and I have no idea where my mom put my SKS or my Sepultura CDs (totally archaic, on both counts)- have to find them before my kid does.

All best, T

by teru kuwayama | 12 Mar 2011 18:03 (ed. Mar 12 2011) | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
heya – you added the url – the embed code will do this:

interesting interview, mostly because I disagree with some of the basic premises, which is totally cool, although it didn’t really expand much on your issues with Creative Commons.

Anyway, if we’re exchanging Youtube wisdom, check this. Long ago, back when I was “a young photographer”, this is where I drew most of my career advice from:



by teru kuwayama | 12 Mar 2011 19:03 (ed. Mar 13 2011) | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
also, worth a watch – it’s been a while since I saw this talk, but it’s perhaps an interesting counterpoint to some of Ken and David’s thoughts:

“We are increasingly in a landscape where media is global. social, ubiquitous and cheap. Now most organizations that are trying to send messages to the outside world, to the distributed collection of the audience, are now used to this change. The audience can talk back. And that’s a little freaky. But you can get used to it after a while, as people do.

But that’s not the really crazy change that we’re living in the middle of. The really crazy change is here. It’s the fact that they are no longer disconnected from each other. The fact that former consumers are now producers. The fact that the audience can talk directly to one another. Because there is a lot more amateurs than professionals. And because the size of the network, the complexity of the network is actually the square of the number of participants. Meaning that the network, when it grows large, grows very very large.

As recently at last decade, Most of the media that was available for public consumption was produced by professionals. Those days are over, never to return. It is the green lines now, that are the source of the free content. …

….Media, the media landscape that we knew, as familiar as it was, as easy conceptually as it was to deal with the idea that professionals broadcast messages to amateurs, is increasingly slipping away. In a world where media is global, social, ubiquitous and cheap, in a world of media where the former audience are now increasingly full participants, in that world, media is less and less often about crafting a single message to be consumed by individuals. It is more and more often a way of creating an environment for convening and supporting groups.
And the choice we face, I mean anybody who has a message they want to have heard anywhere in the world, isn’t whether or not that is the media environment we want to operate in. That’s the media environment we’ve got. The question we all face now is, "How can we make best use of this media? Even though it means changing the way we’ve always done it”

by teru kuwayama | 13 Mar 2011 01:03 | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
Teru,

Thank you for these video links. I think of the three, Ozzy makes the most sense.

It makes me laugh to see a bald guy talk about “shinny new tools”, because that’s exactly what he is. I think you might want to rethink staking your future on what he says. Nothing he said was anything new or different from what everyone else was saying five or six years ago.

The last example, the Obama one, is probably the biggest argument against his own premiss. The group effort to effect any meaningful change (in the then senator’s vote) clearly failed. The site was created to funnel presidential campaign donations, not to help mold a campaign platform.

Now, the “social media” aspect so readily harnessed by the Dean… whoops sorry, Obama campaign is the same social media that has been used to silenced the variety of non-partisan voices that once covered the White House. Magazines and newspapers now get their images from the talented White House staff photographers (instead of their own photographers), plus the same images are available on Flcker, so you’ve gone from dozens of voices to one. Everyone is drinking from one tap, the one official sanctioned by the government.

One squared is still one.

Will this be OK when there’s a Republican in the White House?

Would this be OK if we were talking about words instead of pictures?

Do you really think househusbands with their iPhones attending a campaign event is a valid or legitimate replacement for a professional doing the same?

I’ve readily made the point in the past that a unique image from an extraordinary event trumps no image, even if that image is done poorly. That’s a whole different scenario than what a professional’s eye and voice are capable of doing.

If this were not true, why would you bother creating BaseTrack? Don’t the soldiers have their own cameras?

Social media has turned into nothing more than white noise. Voices over voices, saying nothing overly new or original, drowning out one another.

This thread is a good example… is anyone besides ourselves even reading this stuff?

Clearly, the era of the professional voice has just started. Photojournalism is far from dead (including making a living from it). In fact, maybe these first eighty years or so have just been birthing pains.

Instead of one Walter Cronkite, there will be thousands, all with their own followers who appreciate and trust their work. but not millions and not working for free.

I think Ozzy is a good example of this. He’s his own brand. He doesn’t need a record label or a crooked promoter taking 90% of his profits. He can reach his core through social media(s) and profit from what he produces (as well as what he has created in the past).

If you don’t believe me, try using the Creative Commons pitch with Ozzy’s lawyers after using one of his tracks on a multimedia piece.

Ken

by Kenneth Jarecke | 14 Mar 2011 17:03 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
hi Ken, airborne, and just passed over Montana – my thoughts below – all best, T

“Teru,
Thank you for these video links. I think of the three, Ozzy makes the most sense.
It makes me laugh to see a bald guy talk about “shinny new tools”, because that’s exactly what he is. I think you might want to rethink staking your future on what he says. Nothing he said was anything new or different from what everyone else was saying five or six years ago.”

I’m not suggesting Clay Shirkey is a prophet. I’m suggesting that he articulated some interesting ideas, which are relevant to yours, if only as a counterpoint. Novelty or empirical truth are non-requisite for either of you – and if I’m going to stake my future on any shiny headed bald guys, it’ll probably be the Dalai Lama – although Kane from Kung Fu was pretty cool also.

“The last example, the Obama one, is probably the biggest argument against his own premiss. The group effort to effect any meaningful change (in the then senator’s vote) clearly failed. The site was created to funnel presidential campaign donations, not to help mold a campaign platform.
Now, the “social media” aspect so readily harnessed by the Dean… whoops sorry, Obama campaign is the same social media that has been used to silenced the variety of non-partisan voices that once covered the White House. Magazines and newspapers now get their images from the talented White House staff photographers (instead of their own photographers), plus the same images are available on Flcker, so you’ve gone from dozens of voices to one. Everyone is drinking from one tap, the one official sanctioned by the government.”

As far as I’m aware, the people hired by the White House, both as photographers, and editors, are exactly the same people who previously worked for the newsmagazines. It might be inconvenient for the photographers who no longer get paid dayrates for doing the same thing, but it’s a bit of a stretch to try to pass that off as some kind of oppressive measure to suppress dissident opinion.

“One squared is still one.”

Zero squared is infinite.

Will this be OK when there’s a Republican in the White House?

I’m doubt that Flickr, in the hands of Republicans, will constitute a graver threat to humanity than Flickr in the hands of Democrats.

Incidentally, the last Republican candidate was notably unskilled in the social media spectrum, and had his ass handed to him by a previously unknown candidate who knew what century he was living in.

“Would this be OK if we were talking about words instead of pictures?”

Would it be OK if we were talking about painting? Van Gogh never sold a painting in his life. He was, in the truest sense of the word, an amateur. Is his work less legitimate because it didn’t have a pricetag?

“Do you really think househusbands with their iPhones attending a campaign event is a valid or legitimate replacement for a professional doing the same?”

I’m tempted to say that they’d both be equally boring, but if you throw in a couple of apps like Hipstamatic and Instagram, it tips pretty easily to the househusbands.

“I’ve readily made the point in the past that a unique image from an extraordinary event trumps no image, even if that image is done poorly. That’s a whole different scenario than what a professional’s eye and voice are capable of doing.”

Define professional. If your definition hinges on details of commerce, then you don’t have a very solid foundation for your assertions of superiority.

“If this were not true, why would you bother creating BaseTrack? Don’t the soldiers have their own cameras?”

Basetrack was created, among other reasons, to provide a prototype, and a framework for others to use. That could certainly include soldiers or Marines. The most powerful images of the war in Iraq were made by Army reservists with point and shoot cameras. They weren’t even “professional” soldiers, let alone professional photographers. One of the interesting aspects of the Basetrack project, incidentally, was the discovery that military commanders were much less concerned about giving professionals access to their Marines, than the idea of their Marines having “unfettered access” to publish their own opinions.

“Social media has turned into nothing more than white noise. Voices over voices, saying nothing overly new or original, drowning out one another.”

I’ve heard that before – most notably about hip hop and punk rock, but also about pop art, post modernism, and probably just about everything else that’s ever come along and upset the existing order.

“This thread is a good example… is anyone besides ourselves even reading this stuff?”

We could run analytics and get some pretty specific answers to that question, but maybe a better question would be, how many readers do you require to establish validity?

“Clearly, the era of the professional voice has just started. Photojournalism is far from dead (including making a living from it). In fact, maybe these first eighty years or so have just been birthing pains.
Instead of one Walter Cronkite, there will be thousands, all with their own followers who appreciate and trust their work. but not millions and not working for free.”

Why not millions? And you can look again to music, art, or any other form of creative expression, and you will find millions, if not billions of people doing it for free.

“I think Ozzy is a good example of this. He’s his own brand. He doesn’t need a record label or a crooked promoter taking 90% of his profits. He can reach his core through social media(s) and profit from what he produces (as well as what he has created in the past).”

A better example would be Trent Reznor – he’s been a very active and thoughtful user of social media. And Creative Commons.

“If you don’t believe me, try using the Creative Commons pitch with Ozzy’s lawyers after using one of his tracks on a multimedia piece.”

Unlikely – with the possible exception of Crazy Train, I haven’t really listened to much of his music since he left Black Sabbath.

And I’m still very curious to learn more about the specifics of your objections to Creative Commons. You still haven’t articulated them in any detail.

by teru kuwayama | 15 Mar 2011 01:03 | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
I´ve got a good set of pics from demos in Baghdad, “Iraqi wrath day”(Feb 25th) included. Do you have any interest?

by Karlos Zurutuza | 15 Mar 2011 11:03 | | Report spam→
Also worthwhile, on the subject of professionals for hire, and role models for business negotiations, here’s Yul Brynner’s talk:



by teru kuwayama | 15 Mar 2011 19:03 | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
can’t say much more that that UW scene….and will write more about Creative commons later (i donate, btw and believe in them)…

something to think about, these:



by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 14:03 | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
“where its been is probably more interesting than where its going…”

OH MY FUCKING GOD……i can’t believe i haven’t also heard ‘let them eat cake’….y’all sure you aren’t palling around with Louis Quatorziè….

i have always respected the ‘beejeezits’ out of David’s work and work ethic….but i have to this video positively (but again) simply reinforces that there is a profound disconnect between visual sensitivity/acuity and a deeper understanding of the way life and thinks operate…again, the foolishness of the myopic……..

i need a breakfast bite in order to process this hideous and harrowing mentality…..i am utterly shocked Ken, frankly…..

and this nonsense about craft….so using the same logic as y’all have displayed vis-a-vis the devolution of the photographic prctice (and make no mistake about it your aristocratic symposium is not only a disquieting misunderstanding of the nature of the work that is being done now in documentary and journalistic practice (a lamentation on the good old days does NOT mean that important work isn’t being done) but more important than a discussion on what photographers can do to sustain and share their stories but you’ve essentially said a ‘pox on the house of young photographers’ essentially blaming young photographers for creating this….

and this screed about ‘craft’….

using the logic of your discussion, then surely David’s work has nothing on the work of Evans, Bellocq, Stieglitz, Cameron, let alone Muybridge……

you guys have to be kidding me….

ok, so here are bunch of names that vitiate everything you’ve discussed: EMPHASIS, BASETRACKER, BURN, KICKSTARTER….

want more?….

will write a more reasoned response after breakfast

by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 15:03 (ed. Mar 19 2011) | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
i would wish to remind you that the ENTIRE history of journalism has been about (and always will) the ‘aggregation of imagery’….(what is david’s last book if not that??)….we ‘know’ or ‘remember’ or carve up history through our collectively culled aggregation….that we can and still and always shall value the singularity of story telling within it’s aggregate is still why it is still so powerful and necessary to tell stories….the ubiquity of pictures does not mean the stories are better/worse now, just as because there were less of y’all in the past did NOT mean YOUR STORIES were better or worse….it mean the individual numbers within the aggregate may have been fewer….

and while we’re at story telling….i’ll take someone’s phone vid (non-photographer) of what they experience in iran, egpyt, gaza, moscow airport, libya, over any number of the pro’s long lenses and expensive gear….why?

because we contribute, in the first place to story telling because we belief it’s part of our necessity to do so….

and mind you, my wife and i, too, raising a young (though tall) son on 2 artist-photographers income and you don’t hear me bemoaning the state of the industry….

because my responsibility is not to sit around with a pint of guiness (oh, wait, yes it it, with some whiskey) lamenting the loss of the good-ole-days, but rather to get my ass in gear to ensure that my family and my son’s life is ok and that the stories i tell/make are done so in a way that at night i can decently feel good about….

you old bulls need to spend more time with younger calfs, i’m afraid to say…

want some introductions?

more later

by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 15:03 | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
David asked for a list of young photographers who care about work done before them?…..

here is my email: bluewordsme2@gmail.com

i’ll send you more photographers who know as much about work prior to David then he can shake a leg at…

and can i remind david about his use of Holga??

by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 15:03 | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
Teru,

Next time you fly over, make a pit stop and we can discuss these and other issues while celebrating both our 2nd and 21st amendment rights.

I don’t think we’re going to come to an agreement over Creative Commons. The current laws regarding ownership of intellectual property are abused enough. Those who wish to steal our work already do so.

Creative Commons? That’s like removing the locks on your front door because the thieves are just going to break through the wall anyway.

All the best,

Ken

by Kenneth Jarecke | 19 Mar 2011 15:03 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
ok, last post…

will try to be more calm…

To begin with this entire discussion (i’m referring to the vid discussion between Ken and David), reminds me of the old plantation owners discussion of those damn, comeupent house slaves who just don’t get their place….or the colonialist’s chat on the veranda about damn Rhodesia was so much better when there were less of them out there in the village asking questions…..it must be, formally, the most depressing interview I have watched on the state of photography…not simply the content but these idiotic smug expressions….

Let me say, categorically, that while I respect the work of David (and own 2 of his books), I condemn EVERYTHING he says and will share this video with younger photographers (my students, those i mentor) as to how not to react or think about photography….

To begin with, the notion that younger photographers care less/know less about the craft/story telling because of a)their equipment, b)the platforms by which they distribute/share their stories/images, c)the mechanics by which they shoot, d)their philosophies and experiences, e) their educational/experiential verities, and f)their number is absolutely NON-SENSE. There are just as many assholes who don’t know or give a damn about others in David’s generation as their of in mine generation or in the generation younger than me. There are just as many great photographers in my generation and in the generation younger than mine as there was in David’s. More over, i know photographers of all ages who live/breath/work their asses off ‘20 hours a day’ as well. I know photographers personally in Russia, Kazakhstan, turkey, korea, philipines, thailand, brazil, let alone the US and Canada who can’t even afford the damn blue blazer and another piece of glass, but work their ass off in those places to shoot for magazines, newspapers and their own bodies of work, many of whom do not have the luxury to sit around a damn pint of guiness pontificating about how horrid the world of journalism is now because the ‘golden age’ has disappeared because they’re not only working to make pictures but most often doing other shit to sustain their lives….

it’s shocking to see a photographer of such high regard for self give such little regard to the work that is being done now that, if this were the medical profession, i would immediately call for his resignation and loss of license….alas, working a camera (always my lamentation about journalism) does not require a working head or heart…..simply an understanding of the mechanics of a machine

as to the notion of the Brave New world of journalism. The world of lore was NO better, neither for a photographer nor for the world at large. Yes, there were ‘less’ of y’all. Yes, your wallets were padded more comfortably, but that was still for those few of you with the priviledge and the luck of success. ‘Success’ is not simply about ‘craft’. I know (again personally) a bunch of African American photogrpahers (my own heros when i was in university) who worked their asses off in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and how knew as much about craft as David and Ken and who never had the chance to live the life they did…..Moreover, the distribution system was a plantation system to begin with…..those of you fortunate enough to be hooked with the magazines (no need to name them here) or with a good relationship with a good newspaper, understood that it was possible to make pictures, get ‘sent on assignment’ and make work. This ‘journalism’ was still limited: essentially Western, White Male conception of both story telling and the stories y’all culled up for the good of the public.

I ate that shit up too.

My photographic and journalistic education was weened on the same history of photography (mostly white, men) as anyone else raised in the west, fortunately I preferred music and literature that provoked, fortunately i was always more interested in people and their stories, frankly, then in the nomenclatura of the distribution vehicles….in the good old days, y’all had a distribution system and an architecture that isolated the stories, that gave the world stories y’all wanted to tell and/or understand…..y’all told the same damn stories about africa/s.america/n.america/asia in the way y’all saw it…but that IS NOT good enough…

Now, yes, it is harder to make a livlihood as a ‘professional photgrapher’…but it is DAMN HARDER to earn a living as any number of professions…try living in a developing country….try surviving amid the great migration of china, the profligate changes underway in india, life in gaza, striving to change your life and world amid a leviathan of economic change throughout the world…

every day, i deal with students who come from all over the world to better their lives, to dream of something David, honestly, cannot fathom: the craft of living, the craft of telling their life story, the craft of simply learning a language, to get a better job in order to provide for their family…..

and if our loss as a priviledge ‘profession’ means the expansion of story telling, the opportunity for others who historically did not have the same means or opportunity to to that, than i embrace all of that…..

burn all bridges with tongues of fire…

who are we anyway, this great, gray fog of a profession?….what is the reason you’re snapping to begin with….each of us answers that very differently…and each us needs and reœuires different things….

i don’t care if there are 1,000,000 photogrpahers in ny or toronto or paris, i’ll still snap and find a way to tell the stories i need to and i won’t bemoan the act, because i feel just fucking blessed to be able to make pictures, because there are kids outthere in the world who would just fucking kill to be able to have a camera…kids who just want to be able to not live in fear….kids out there who just want to fucking live….

wake up ken, wake up david….

you guys honestly depress the shit out of my soul….

folk like you who make me want to stay as far away from this profession as possible….

word

by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 15:03 | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
forgot, a word about Creative Commons:

intellectual ownership is about about one’s ability to recognize that their stories come from others and that they too can contribute their stories to something more than just the solipsistic notion of ‘mine’….that one’s ‘owns’ something based on their choice to contribute it as well…

by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 15:03 | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
Bob,

Ranting on an empty stomach can’t be good for you. Have a bran muffin. Balance out that blood-sugar before you start blasting away.

I just spent 15 minutes reviewing the video that you’ve found so offensive. I think you may be just a tad off base.

I wrote about the video on my blog here,

http://kennethjarecke.typepad.com/mostly_true/2011/03/grumpy-old-men.html

And Duckrabbit here,

http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2011/03/photojournalism-experts-discuss-stuff-over-a-beer/

I think your silly manifesto (above) offers all the insight one needs in regard to your irrational thoughts and opinions.

Your a leftist who clearly is trying to claim ownership over the work of whomever you please (just like those behind the Creative Commons scam). I find your worldview, which you eagerly spew out as if it makes your foolishness somehow honorable, to be abhorrent.

I was wrong, your problems go far beyond what can be solved through dietary means.

I pray that your warped philosophy doesn’t destroy the blossoming careers of your students, even the evil white ones.

As I’ve said in the past, what is commonly referred to as the “history of photojournalism” is just the prolog. Photojournalism, as a medium, has great things ahead of it.

Ken

by Kenneth Jarecke | 19 Mar 2011 16:03 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
Hi Ken,

Think I’m flying over your place again. Would love to ask the pilot to make a pit stop for a beer summit, but I’m not even in business class, so it’ll have to wait till another time – better yet, we’ll get Bob to bring the whiskey. Strictly BYO for bran muffins.

Setting favorite constitutional amendments aside for a moment, here’s Wikipedia’s take on Creative Commons:

“Creative Commons (CC) is a non-profit organization headquartered in San Francisco, California, United States devoted to expanding the range of creative works available for others to build upon legally and to share. The organization has released several copyright-licenses known as Creative Commons licenses free of charge to the public. These licenses allow creators to communicate which rights they reserve, and which rights they waive for the benefit of recipients or other creators. An easy to understand one-page explanation of rights, with associated visual symbols, explains the specifics of each Creative Commons license. This simplicity distinguishes Creative Commons from an all-rights reserved copyright. Creative Commons was invented to create a more flexible copyright model, replacing “all rights reserved” with “some rights reserved”. Wikipedia is one of the notable web-based projects using one of its licenses.”

It is not, as Yunghi suggested previously, a “photo sharing site”, and it isn’t a reversal of copyright law, or a denial of anyone’s rights to earn a living from their work or IP.

It’s just a simplified method of explaining which rights you choose to reserve, and under what conditions you want to share.

It’s a strange leap of logic to say that sharing opens the door to theft.

Personally, when I encounter someone like the Michelle, the original poster, who does well-intentioned work for an important cause, and is unpaid herself – I don’t view them as a client, and certainly not as a thief – I see a partner and an ally.

Similarly, if individuals want to share, reproduce, and distribute our photographs about a decade-long war that most people would rather not think about – we’re not using Creative Commons licenses because we can’t stop them – we’re doing everything we can to encourage them.

Time, Newsweek, and any for-profit commercial entities can pay for their licenses just as they always have.

As Yunghi mentioned, those rates have been static for 20 years, and are “a bit outdated but its better than nothing”. (Define archaic)

I just did an assignment for Newsweek yesterday, same dayrates as always – the only difference was that I used a mobile phone, and made a few frames with a point-and-shoot for back up, and my entire camera bag fit in my pocket.

If I’m missing something on Creative Commons, by all means, let me know.

Now, if I can find a cabin crew member, I’m going to spend the next few hours exercising my 21st Amendment rights. Unfortunately, these cheap bastards on Delta are now charging fees for the service.

by teru kuwayama | 19 Mar 2011 21:03 | New York City, United States | | Report spam→
ken/teru:

sorry for the outburst….i hadn’t eaten my oat bran when i wrote….and just opened the wine (yup, had some whiskey) and am off to do the family shopping (after a long walk with mrs. black, another photographer btw who supports Creative Commons)…

will try to write a less emotional response tomorrow, as well as some thoughts on Creative Commons, as both a photographer/writer and a contributor/supporter…incidentally, i DO give my words away for free all the time…here at LS (we all do, btw, just as we give away advice/editorial content/contacts/couches to sleep on)….but i’ve given a ton of prose away too, magazines as well……..at Burn, i not only write alot (too much probably if you ask most folks) but actually write art criticism and have written essays/text to go with some of the photographic essays published there, …not out of ‘altrusim’ but because it was out of community….strength in the idea that while livelihood is essential, there are models of work, creative joining that can be harnessed…..and i’ve written for other outlets…for free…not that long ago, couple of years ago, i railed against PRIVATE (and later Jon L at foto8) here about treating photographers right (money wise) but have changed alot over the last 5 years…mostly from learning alot from my son, who as most kids is so much ahead of the curve than most of the parents….and i help young photographers all the time, like all the time, time/work/edit/advice/intros….because i ain shit (nor my work) without the understanding that we’re all in this together…..

so, i will absolutely bring the whiskey for the summit….(dave harvey knows that :))….

so i see that simply: partnership….maybe it is the punk/skateboarder ethic that still survives in me…maybe it’s the way-too-much meditation…maybe it is the damn oat bran…or maybe it’s just that, shit, i never thought i was that important, just that i needed folk, needed their help and to help them….and that like water my friend…

and one last bit….4 weeks ago, i was asked to sit on a jury for a projection that a group of young PJ’s who i mentor/work with/drink with, they’ve put together a projection showing each others work, jam session of work/ideas…anyway, one story i choose was work by a young girl from Iran who’d emigrated from Tehran to n.toronto and was doing a story on girls making that transition….she shot the whole thing on a point-shoot and also got inspired by many of the other immigrants teens swaping their pics….ng/newsweek/time etc would never even fathomed her, yes her, as a pj 10, 20, 30 years ago…..but THAT IS THE WORLD that we need not only celebrate but get….

and god damn, that beauty and that energy and that love of life/story telling beats the shit out of lamentations in a bar of the golden age….

respect

running to watch tsai ming-liang…

hugs
b

by [former member] | 19 Mar 2011 22:03 (ed. Mar 19 2011) | Charlotte, NC, United States | | Report spam→
you can find at www.demotix.com

by donal husni | 28 Apr 2011 01:04 | Pangandaran, Indonesia | | Report spam→
Teru,
I can’t say I’ve agreed a lot in the past with Yunghi, but this time I couldn’t agree more. When you talk about “new stuff”, I can’t see any indication or explanation of a commercial model. People seem to suggest in this thread that your model is simply using other sources of income to finance photographic projects (that generate none). I’m all ears with regards to new models, but it does seem to me that you are writing from the perspective of someone who has the luxury of financial independence. Please enlighten me if you think I’m wrong!
David

by David Peart | 08 May 2011 06:05 | Beijing, China | | Report spam→
My God…
Its like one of those threads on Photo.net.

If you don’t like the rates offered, go elsewhere.
This is also not your run of the mill international news mag.

So give her a break. Personally, if I had these pictures in my archive I would be glad to get some momney for them.

by Stephen Asprey | 08 May 2011 07:05 | Sydney, Australia | | Report spam→

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Participants

Michelle L. Woodward, photo editor, photog Michelle L. Woodward
photo editor, photog
Beirut , Lebanon
marco salustro, Photographer marco salustro
Photographer
Rome , Italy ( FCO )
Raffaela Lepanto, photoeditor, photographer Raffaela Lepanto
photoeditor, photographer
(photoeditor, photographer)
London , United Kingdom
Martin von den Driesch, photographer Martin von den Driesch
photographer
Dubai , United Arab Emirates
Kenneth Jarecke, photographer Kenneth Jarecke
photographer
Montana , United States ( BII )
Tri Saputro, Photojournalist Tri Saputro
Photojournalist
(available for assignment)
Melbourne , Australia
teru kuwayama, I/O teru kuwayama
I/O
New York , United States
Karlos Zurutuza, Freelance journalist Karlos Zurutuza
Freelance journalist
(Freelance journalist)
Derik , Syria
donal husni, Photographer donal husni
Photographer
(Photographer)
Serpong , Indonesia
David Peart, photographer David Peart
photographer
(Underwater / Environ. / Report)
Beijing , China ( PEK )
Stephen Asprey, Photojournalist Stephen Asprey
Photojournalist
(Visual Journalism)
Sydney , Australia


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