re: petition World Press photo

Amit, has anyone asked Ami about this? Have you or anyone else given her a chance to say, “Sorry, it was a mistaken caption”? I am wondering why you are so fired up about this?
So I have a few questions for you… do you have any work entered in the contest? Have you worked with Ms Vitale before in any capacity? Is there anything you wold like to share about your motivations for pursuing this?
Tobie

As Frontline has noted, it’s a valid question as to whether or not an image of Ashura belongs in this multi-media piece about political unrest in Kashmir -but I would also consider it inaccurate to characterize Ashura as a “celebration”.

It’s a commemoration of the martyrdom of a revered historical figure, and it would probably be more accurate to describe it as a mourning ritual, and one which is most certainly associated with violence and sorrow.

In any case, this petition is seriously misguided, especially as it seems to based on the dubious premise that photographer Ami Vitale also works as a multi-media producer for PBS.

The photograph in question is on Ami’s website, with a clear caption, so hard to make a case that she’s trying to deceive anyone about the nature of the image.

ami11 0.jpg

“SRINAGAR, INDIA, MARCH 2, 2004:A Kashmiri Shiite Muslim holds his blood stained hands to his chest after flagellating himself in a procession in Srinagar, India March 2, 2004. Shiite Muslims all over the world are mourning the slaying of Imam Hussain, grandson of the Prophet Mohammed who was killed by his political rivals along with 72 companions some 1300 years ago in Iran during the first month of the Islamic calender, called Muharram.”

I’m fairly certain that Ms. Vitale is not an “opportunist” or unethical by any means. Her work is respected by many and she surely doesn’t need to promote herself with controversy. Self flagellation and martyrdom are violent acts by nature. This is a non-issue. I’m with Tobie on this.

“In the multimedia on PBS she has used this picture to show violence in Kashmir and alleged brutalities by Indian Security Forces, and clearly deceived the editor and the viewer”

Amit,
the image in the multimedia was but 1 in what,100+ images? I,personally, didn’t feel it cast negative sentiments on either side of the clash.

Do you have strong feelings about this conflict and does the way this image is being used (or at least your view of it) conflict with your sentiments on the subject?
Not trying to be adversarial but just trying to get a sense about why this one image used as it is really disturbs you.
I don’t buy the journalistic ethics angle as I’m inclined to give Ami the benefit of the doubt given her contributions,etc.

I don’t see it. I think Amit is reading his own narrative between the lines, which is in the end one of the great things about long form reportage as opposed to spot news. It gives breathing room for people to think. The problem is he is unfair in his accusation, and for that reason none is signing his ridiculous petition. very often in any reportage about an area in conflict, an astute photographer will include images that speak to the people, cultures and the place itself as well as show pictures of violence. In this case, I saw the boys bloody hands a reasonable image to include if one is showing life in any country inhabited by shiites. There are many other pictures in the group that do not speak to violence directly.. It is part of a broader look. I don’t even see this project to be about violence, but rather conflict. And conflict certainly was at root when Hussien’s head was chopped off.

Dear photo colleagues,

I produced the slideshow in question four years ago for FRONTLINE/World’s Flashpoint series. I selected the images, recorded the interview, and assembled the content of what you see. Ami Vitale had nothing to do with the editorial decisions made. I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY. I see that a correction has been posted about that particular image but if anyone is questioning the integrity of this piece, you should direct your comments my way instead of questioning the ethics of Ami Vitale. As I said, I reached out to her and to many other colleagues who were doing worthy work and our goal was to give them a platform that would encourage public discourse and also get many to learn about the issues they were covering: http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/flashpoint/

Amit, I have been in touch with change.org about your petition and it will be removed right away.

All my best,
Mimi Chakarova

Thanks for that clarification Mimi!

Tobie

Of course. I’m sorry I came into this discussion so late.

Amit, while many of us, I am sure, appreciate your point of view, your accusations are considerably overblown. If there is a correction in order, so be it; but from the content written here, some of which by those whose opinions I trust and value, I suspect that there are other circumstances to consider.

With so many dreadful things happening in the world, many of which are being ignored by mainstream media, and are left to us to try to bring to the attention of those who might be able to make a difference, your aggressive stance seems unwarranted and I wonder if it is founded on some other truth.

Either way, I wish you peace and goodwill.

I wish Amit fleas, bedbugs and a hair shirt! What he has done shows no peace and goodwill on his part.

I don’t know what his real motive is but his argument is totally cookoo. Just read what Mimi – a class act in her own right – posted above to understand.

Ami Vitale is one of the most highly-principled photographers in the world. Why the hell would someone go after her with such a nutcase argument unless they had an improper motive? Jeez!

Its seems case closed here, but not before mentioning a serious appreciation for Mimi Chakarova and her unequivocal announcement—-its impressive and yet not so—-any editor, producer I have worked for would do the same I think—-it is their code of ethics and she has simply done her job in adhering to it, and then her execution, simple and yet with panache….Wow….like I said, case closed.

bro

Dear Amit,

As I mentioned in my previous note, I was the person who selected, edited, assembled, interviewed and produced the piece that you have issues with. Your personal attack on Ami Vitale is unwarranted and inflammatory — the reason why Change.Org has agreed to remove your petition after I contacted them.

But I wanted to try one more time to explain the process of how these multimedia slideshows come to life. As a curator and producer of Flashpoint, I contacted photojournalists whose projects were international in focus, whose long-term commitment to a region showed dedication and a thorough understanding of the issues portrayed and what I asked in return was for them to trust my judgment. I would receive hundred of photos (in one case, I received over 350), I would edit the work, read the captions, research the topic and conduct the interviews. Most were done over the phone or in radio labs across the U.S. Then I would take the edited photos, listen to the audio tracks and start producing the piece. It would go over several drafts, other producers would watch the rough cut and give their input. I would take all of that into account and then create a final version. Please be assured, a lot of time and care went into each piece you see. As a fellow photographer and journalist, I took this task to heart.

I agreed to be the curator of the series because I wanted to support the work of my colleagues and provide a platform that enabled them to do more of what’s important. So let me repeat again: I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR CRITICISM ABOVE. Any issues you have with what I produced, or “strategically” placed, should be sent to me.

My best,
Mimi

Amit, get on with your life. Do something good. Life’s too short for this nonsense.

The rest of you… “Move along, there’s nothing here for you to see.” (What NY cops are well known for saying.)

Thanks Mimi for your classiness.

An organization judging photography and journalism for the highest standards should not have jury members with a blatant disregard for high journalistic standards. And that includes letting a bad edit, apparently done by someone else, go unchallenged for years.

http://goo.gl/tH7qf

Thank you all for your posts.

Neal, it’s called “diplomacy,” something that has helped leaders and governments around the world curtail and avoid conflict for thousands of years.

Amit, you continue to judge Ami which is extraordinarily misguided. If you feel that there has been wrong-doing here, then perhaps you should be questioning the World Press Photo selection process for judges. In my experience, Ami upholds the highest standards at all times, and her work, unlike that of many self-proclaimed photojournalists, does actually make a positive difference to many around the world. I would welcome an opportunity to discuss this with you via Skype should you wish to.

As I mentioned to Ami, she’s lucky she didn’t make the Ashura photo with an iPhone – then she’d really be in trouble.

If you look at the slideshow, it’s clear that the picture of the hands has been used out of context. Using it between two similar pictures of a violent demo makes it look like a close-up during that violence. It’s misrepresenting the picture. Just take it down and re-edit it. If you don’t, then it’s quite legitimate to ask questions about integrity. Which photographer who knows their work has been misrepresented would allow it to stay up? If you let it go, then what else do you compromise on? What else can we not believe? Don’t shoot the messenger. Deal with the issue.

@Phil – I don’t think anyone is actually disputing your point.

It seems that Frontline acknowledged that there’s a legitimate question about the use of the image, and Mimi, the multi-media producer, has clearly accepted responsibility for whatever mistake was made, if there was one – so I’m not really sure what’s left to deal with.

The petition doesn’t actually seem that interested in any of that, and he’s not directing his petition to PBS, Frontline, or the person who actually selected and sequenced the photos- and he’s not even asking for the multi-media piece to be pulled, or re-edited.

It’s specifically, and solely focused on Ami, and having her removed from the jury of World Press Photo.
I’m not sure what that’s supposed to accomplish, but supposedly, it’s based on the premise that World Press Photo is some kind of bastion of ethical purity that Ami is now defiling with her presence.

For anyone who’s been tracking the US journalism talk shop, the practice of fact-checking is front and center at the moment, and there’s actually some important issues that this delusional petition touches on, even if it’s unintentional.

and I would guess that Ami’s not responding to this because it’s generally unproductive to engage in conversation with mentally unbalanced stalkers.

I’m sure Amit would be the first to admit he comes across as a ranting nutter. But at the heart of his point is a passion for journalism and getting it right — and caring about it. Personally I don’t agree with witch hunts or petitions, hangings and floggings. But I don’t agree with shrugging and saying ‘whatever’. As journalists we all know who we can trust. If it was my work, I’d have it taken off the web the moment I found out about it.

woah.

holy shit. did I just wake up in some alternate reality, where journalists now give a rat’s ass about fact-checking?

if so, that’s totally awesome, and I’d love to embark on this new era of truth vigilance – but it’s a curiously small fish that’s getting reeled in here.

just sayin, yo.

As someone whose wife was an ambassador-level diplomat, I think I know a thing or two about diplomacy. In the world of diplomacy there are times when one must be direct, and this is one. Nothing that happened here in any way taints Ami’s ability to serve as a judge of WPP. That’s it. Anything more is off base both editorially and rationally.

The most charitable thing that can be said is that the petition is based on a religious fundamentalism that is mystical but not realistic. Valid editorial judgments must be based on realism. Otherwise reportage would be driven by what preachers preach, not what journalists observe and capture. Women would be deleted from photographs, etc. One can be culturally sensitive enough to understand that tendency, but one should not accept it in modern journalism, and certainly not implement it (or expect others to).

@Amit – I think you’re confused. (to put it in diplomatic terms)

but, just to avoid further confusion, let’s clarify a few points.

a. the reason I’m fact-checking you on your description of Ashura, is to point out that:

you don’t actually seem especially interested in accuracy, and clearly, you don’t know very much about Islam (Shia, or otherwise).

c. although (in my opinion) it doesn’t look like it was an accurate use of the photograph, I can understand how the multi-media producer might have thought it was tangentally relevant – so I’m more inclined to view it as an honest mistake than as a monstrous conspiracy to mislead the global public about political turmoil in Kashmir.

d. Frontline, in response to your complaint, has actually put up a disclaimer, underneath the video, indicating the exact details of the photograph – which, for better or worse, is a lot more than other major news organizations have done to deal with far more egregious screw ups.

Regarding November Eleven and Lightstalkers:

1. As per legal requirements that someone signs paperwork for this lunatic asylum, I’m on the board of directors of N11, a 501©3 non-profit organization which does what it can to keep Lightstakers running.

2. No one “owns” Lightstalkers. It’s ungoverned space – and unlike Kashmir, no one wants to claim ownership of it.

3. If I did own it, I’d probably fire whoever’s running it – which might then relieve me of the pain in the ass of watching online videos whenever some half-wit launches an investigative probe of someone else’s multi-media project.

4. Regarding journalism, lawyers and diplomats:

Neal’s a lawyer, his wife was in the diplomatic service.

4a. I’m not a lawyer – Most of the things I do are, at best, marginally legal, and no one has ever accused me of diplomacy.

4b. I might not actually be a “journalist” either, unless arguing with assholes on the internet counts as journalism.

4c. However, in the event that I do qualify as a journalist, I will adhere to your regulations and tell you the “hard, absolute truth” – you’re a delusional idiot.

4d. That said, when ever you want to have a rational conversation about Kashmir, Islam, or inaccuracies in mainstream journalism, feel free to drop a line.

all best,

T

@amit, you’re welcome. and feel free to check in again, when you have some words of your own.

best, T

Amit, talking about “absolute truth” (whatever that is), you should start by using you full name, methinks (and it seems I’m not alone on this one).
On the subject of your petition, the fact that after 5 days you raised so far just two signatures speaks by itself. I think you could have made a valid point for a good discussion on photojournalism and ethics, yet you decided on a wrong approach to it. Should you have started an argument about the legitimity of the use of that picture on that particular context, we could have seen that constructive discussion here and elsewhere, but by publicly accusing Ami Vitale and asking for her removal from WPP the question you raise, rather than if the picture was fairly used or not, what are your real motivations to bother signing up to change.org and then Lightstalkers just to do the accusation. Do you really believe the first thing that comes to mind is “what a great guy, he started a crusade defending photojournalism ethics”?
You answer each and every message by copying and pasting the same arguments over and over, yet you fail to make a point (let alone getting someone to sign your petition). Perhaps you should start over, this time with a different approach.
Personally, I don’t accept public anonymous accusations over the net, in this context (you’re not risking your life by raising this issue) it seems to me extremely unethical. I may or may not deal with the issue we’re discussing, there’s some food for thought and it would have been nice to discuss the fact rather than this stupid petition; but there’s something for sure: I don’t believe you’re being honest, and I just don’t trust you.

Could this be another hoax? Stoopid Photographer, Lightstalkerisdead…?

Here is Amit’s info:

“it was camouflage. If you kept the small rules, you could break the big ones.” – George Orwell, 1984

@DPC – I’m with you on the collective-shrug reflex – it’s not the most impressive character trait of the journalism community.

I happen to think that fact-checking is important, regardless of the size of the details. I also think that this petition is a moderately entertaining, but totally insincere distraction.

In any case, since Amit seems to have appointed me as the global minister of fact-checking, let’s deal with this.

I herewith announce the following edicts:

As soon as Ami gets back from the Netherlands (where, as we speak, WPP is probably embroiled in an impassioned debate over the ethical implications of saturation levels and iphone applications) – we’ll launch a forensic examination to determine whether or not she weighs more than a duck.

If she floats in water, we’ll burn her at the stake.

Amit, as a punitive measure for getting his Ashura facts totally wrong, will be taken into custody, remanded to Srinigar, and flogged by the local Shia community, in a “celebration” of journalistic integrity.

For the entire world-wide photojournalism community, talking photographer multi-media slideshows are banned until further notice.

Thank you all for your posts:

A former chair of World Press Photo has written to me, and dealt with the issue, without the kind of questioning and abuses made on this thread. For this reason, all my posts here are being deleted and the petition is closed as it completed its initial timeline. I am glad that we all have got to know that one of the directors of November Eleven, owners of this website, has no respect for other members.

The petition is closed because it outlived its initial timeline. It would be reopened as and when need arises. Hats off to Nayan Sthankiya whom I have never met or spoken, and who had the guts to sign the petition. I am rather worried that abuses are not directed to Nayan now. The second person seems fake and I have no tool at my disposal to remove it.

My heartfelt appreciation also goes to Phil Goodwin who made some very valid points on this thread, and to DPC for extending support for a just cause.

Last but not the least, here is what the former chair of World Press Photo Contest had to say about the situation.

“Dear Amit,

They had a jury member drop out in the last minute, which made things very difficult as they were one down anyway. So they were under pressure. But the issue has been raised and is being given serious consideration. Not merely for this contest but for future too.

Thank you for bringing it up."
_____________
Good bye!

@Amit, assuming you come back and read. How did you expect we “deal with the issue?” Signing the petition? Why on earth would we do that just because someone posted it on Changes.Org?
You think Ami Vitale shouldn’t be jury? OK, write a complaint to the organization and expose your arguments. The way you approached the issue was completely out of line, sorry.
Last but not least, you can interpret not signing the petition as lack of guts, but it’s not that there’s only one person in this big world who had the guts, it’s that there has been only one person in the whole big world who agreed with you. Now, I’m pretty sure you’ll choose the first option and think that you’re preaching in the desert and eventually the truth, your truth, will prevail, and books will be written on how a single brave anonymous person saved photojournalism from its doom.
@Teru, thanks for bringing Monty Python in. It’s always good :)

@Teru – ditto Patricio.

@Neal – you had me at “diplomat” and given the on-going tone of Amit’s discourse, I have to swing over to your camp on this one.

@[Former Member] aka Amit – even if your point turns out to have any real validity, you are still a complete jerk. And all your responses have been screen-captured for future reference on how not to be a jack-ass. Stay well.

Over and out.

Hey I don’t really want to change the subject, but does anyone have a good recipe for rabbit stew——and it has to be without potatoes because I ran out 3 days ago.

Thanks,

bro

@David Bro… I always check here for recipes and take away what I need. http://www.cooks.com/rec/search/0,1-0,rabbit_stew,FF.html

Noodes would be good… if you haven’t run out. A nice Cote-du-Rhone to go with.

Watch for the lead shots and Bon Appetit!
;-)

Okay, thanks—-no worries about lead shot as I strangled him, I save all my ammunition for use at lightstalkers.

bro

that’s great Bro – thanks. waiting now for petitions from animal rights activists.

@J-F – rather than a hoax, it could be “just” a case of Narcissistic personality disorder.

Sorry for being serious again – would Teru or someone like to post another Monty Python clip?

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