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rodinal & TRI-X

Has anyone tried tri-x in rodinal 1:50 before, and knows how to loose some of that grain?

I really like the results, but the grain is absymal. Too much inversions maybe?

by P.S. at 2009-05-03 20:19:35 UTC Tel Aviv Yaffo , Israel | Bookmark | | Report spam→

1:100

How many inversions are you doing? How hot is your water?

Grain is good.

by Nigel Gray | 03 May 2009 21:05 (ed. May 3 2009) | Sarasota, Fl, United States | | Report spam→
I always used 1:50, agitating for the first 30 sec then 5 every 30 thereafter.

It’s grainy, but I kind of like the look. But if you scan it, it looks very grainy compared to silver prints. All of my Cuba work on my website is done with Tri-X + Rodinal. Silver prints don’t look as grainy as the scans do.

It’s a high acutance developer, which means you get great sharpness but the expense is grain. If you start to soften or reduce the grain, you lose sharpness to some extent.

by Noah Addis | 03 May 2009 22:05 | São Paulo, Brazil | | Report spam→
Water was a bit too warm. (Around 22-24 C I suppose)

I did six inversions for the initial 30 secs, then three every minute for about 15sec plus one hard tap on the counter after each of the three, for close to 14 minutes.

The strange thing is, I did a roll of apx100 shot at 400ASA on the same day, souped in 1:50 rodinal for 30 minutes, and it has less grain than the trix rolls.. (Looks beautiful btw.)But the trix looks like ap400 pushed to 1600. Must be the initial agitation, or the water maybe?

Aye, grain is good!

Thanks mate

by P.S. | 03 May 2009 22:05 | vienna, Austria | | Report spam→
noah, beautiful photos.

That’s what I was hoping to get with rodinal in terms of sharpness/grain..

My negatives look very far from it though. :)
I’ll post an example tomorrow so you’ll see what I mean. Quite strange..

by P.S. | 03 May 2009 22:05 | vienna, Austria | | Report spam→
I do my own inversions which aren’t considered proper, but I find works far better. If I’m pushing the film I’ll do 8 inversions every 5 minutes…If I’m not pushing the film I’ll do about 6-8 inversions every 2-3 minutes. I find inverting every 30 seconds is way too much.

The warmer the water the quicker your developing will be, which will give you more grain. I develop at about 24C b/c it’s so damn hard to get water in FL to stay below that.

If you want less grain try a 1:100 dilution. That will help a lot.

tx@400 for me.
http://www.pbase.com/nigelgray/image/100707455

tx@3200-6400 (I can’t remember which).
http://www.pbase.com/nigelgray/image/76907589

by Nigel Gray | 03 May 2009 22:05 (ed. May 3 2009) | Sarasota, Fl, United States | | Report spam→
Rodinal creates a beautiful hard-edged grain with tri-x (one of my favorite combinations), but if you don’t like it maybe try HC110 dilution B. It won’t kill the grain, but it might dull it down a little.

by Matt Gainer | 04 May 2009 04:05 | Los Angeles, United States | | Report spam→
Develop at 18C

by Alex Magedler | 04 May 2009 08:05 | Vienna, Austria | | Report spam→
The perfect match…
It has been ages since i don’t do it (damn digital) and the grain, oh the grain!!!

Do it between 18C and 20C, and all will be fine… It s my fav!

Cheers,

Ar

by Armando Ribeiro | 04 May 2009 09:05 | London, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
never tried but adding a bit of sodium sulfite might help but at the expense of acutance. I like my rodinal 1:25 as is but it spins in a jobo.

by Fred Lum | 04 May 2009 11:05 | Toronto, Canada | | Report spam→
Rodinal developer is perfect for low asa films, is usual have more grain with more speed films. As said Fred add sodium sulfite will turns in a solvent developer that is the opposite of the inherent characteristic of Rodinal, so i don’t recommend that. The more dilution more compensate shadows hightlights but at the cost of more grain. The scans that use led lights tend to increase the apparent grain. The only solution is scan the copies or scan with some cold light scanner, usually a flatbed like the Epson v700 or 750. Now, how all you can get rodinal now when Afga doesn’t exist anymore. I think nobody know the fomula.

by Hernan Zenteno | 04 May 2009 15:05 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/9720-Agfa-Rodinal-17-oz.?cat_id=301

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/431250-Foma-Fomadon-R09-Film-Developer-250ml-Similar-to-Agfa-Rodinal?cat_id=301

R09 is pretty much the exact same thing.

by Nigel Gray | 04 May 2009 16:05 | Sarasota, Fl, United States | | Report spam→
Its been awhile having switched to Neopan 400 in DDX for tighter grain and more speed. But, before that it was TX at 200 asa in Roddy 1:50 for 12 minutes @ 70 degrees. I would still use Rodinal with Agfapan 100, if I could find that film.

by Joel Sackett | 04 May 2009 17:05 | Puget Sound, Washington, United States | | Report spam→
Bad luck, only earth shipment cause toxic components.

by Hernan Zenteno | 04 May 2009 19:05 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Rodinal is not the best choice for Tri-X, unless you want grain like Salgado.
You could try it at 1:50 or 1:100 with stand development, but that’s pretty time consuming.
Rodinal is a high acutance developer and works best with films that are 100asa or slower.
It delivers great tonality and razor sharp negs.

As an alternative I would suggest D76 and Tri-X, which is about as classic a combination as you are going to find.
Use Divided D76 to protect your highlights.

Personally I use DD-76 or Barry Thornton’s 2-Bath developer.

Barry Thornton’s 2-Bath

Bath A
80 g sodium sulfite
6.5 g metol
Make up to 1 L with water

Bath B
12 g sodium metaborate (Kodalk)
Make up to 1 L with water

Dirt cheap, excellent shadow and highlight detail, very consistent results. It’s also close to idiot proof in operation. Use it with any film up to 400asa. Do not agitate the film in bath ‘B’.

Look here for more information:
http://www.photosensitive.ca/wp/archives/115

For push processing to 1200 – 1600 asa use Diafine, XTOL or DD-X

More information here:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/

by Harry Lime | 05 May 2009 00:05 (ed. May 5 2009) | London, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
Hey Feli, at less you forget hydroquinone in the Bath A this formula is similar to divided D-23.

by Hernan Zenteno | 05 May 2009 02:05 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Yes, it’s similar to the Stoekler and D23 formula. Modern films are thinner (they absorb less developer) and Thornton reformulated his developers to work properly with them. It even works with TMAX, which is really thin .

I switched from Ilford DD-X to this developer about 2 years ago. I’m getting much better consistency and overall a much higher quality negative. It is very forgiving when it comes to exposure errors and you really have to do something seriously wrong to blow the highlights. It’s also a lot, lot cheaper.

by Harry Lime | 05 May 2009 07:05 | London, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
i find that all else being equal (and rodinol IS a grainy dev. no matter what), water temp. is critical. Do keep at 68 F/20 C and no warmer unless it’s a special dev. of some kind.

and of course your APX 100 is going to be less grainy than your Tri-X, even pushed. Especially if you didn’t agitate much with your 30 min. dev. time.

for fast, normal processing of Tri-X, i find that HC-110 dil. B, D-76 1+1, or XTol 1+1, all pretty standard procedures, will deliver a very good negative for general purposes.

by [former member] | 06 May 2009 04:05 | Brooklyn, United States | | Report spam→
“Has anyone tried tri-x in rodinal 1:50 before, and knows how to loose some of that grain?”

The grain IS the reason that you use this combo, but if you agitate it too much (more than one gentle inversion every 30 seconds) it’ll make the big grain even bigger.

by James Colburn | 06 May 2009 19:05 | McAllen, Texas, United States | | Report spam→
Wow, away for a day, and now so many people still using film, what a nice surprise.

- Well, I know rodinal and trix is bound to be grainy, that was the reason I wanted to try it.

- It seems the water temp was too high, and agitation too much. Better luck next time.

- Feli, the 2 Bath thing looks very very intersting. I suppose you can get the chemicals in a pharmacy? I’m ususally using D76, but wanted to try something different – I really liked Fuji Neopan 100 in Rodinal.

- Alan, yes, I should’ve. It’s hard to keep it constant because the room temperature is always around 30-40 degrees C.

- Joel, If you’re looking for APX 100, drop me a line, the store around the corner here has a bunch left for very good prices.

I’ll try to make some darkroom prints on the weekend to see if there is a difference, (grain) to the inkjet prints.

Thanks a bunch, all of you, very much aprecciated information all of this!

cheers
phil

by P.S. | 07 May 2009 11:05 | vienna, Austria | | Report spam→
I see that you are in Austria. You can probably get the chemicals at your local Apoteke.

Also try http://www.fotoimpex.de/ in Berlin.

Barry Thornton’s 2-bath has become my standard developer for anything up to 400asa. It’s a variation on DD23 and Stoeklers formula, tweaked for modern emulsions. These are some of the oldest developers around (Rodinal is the oldest commercial developer still in production, well over 100 years).

When you mix it make sure the sugar like crystals are well dissolved. I usually mix a batch a day ahead of using it. 15 rolls per liter seems to be the capacity. You could probably extend that by refreshing bath B, but the chemicals are so cheap, it almost doesn’t make sense not to make a fresh batch.

In practice this developer really is totally idiot proof, as long as you don’t agitate bath B. Give the tank (bath B) a tap against the edge of the table and let it sit. It’s is much less sensitive to temperature, than a single shot developer. Consistency from roll to roll is very high and I’ve gotten negs out of this developer that exceed the dynamic range of my Nikon 9000ED and need to be scanned in two passes, with different exposures.

XTOL, DDX and the rest of the modern developers may have an edge in certain areas, but frankly I have never been able to get totally consistent results from one shot developers and the protection that a 2-bath offers in preserving highlights is unbeatable in my book.

I may give Divided D76 a try, but I’m pretty happy with Thornton’s.

by Harry Lime | 07 May 2009 11:05 | London, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
Leica 2/50 Summicron-DR + (APX100 + Rodinal) = Magic

by Harry Lime | 07 May 2009 11:05 (ed. May 7 2009) | London, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
Hey Feli, do you have a table spoon measure rules to make the Thornton d23? I tried more than decade ago and never get the full sensibility of the film, i had to use a trix like a 200 film that is my reason i quit with that kind of developer. I have good experience with divided d76 from Steve Anchell formula but here is expensive because you have to buy a lot of hidroquinone (in my country not for the quantity of the formula itself). Other variation of Stoekler formula is the Neofin Blue from Tetenal for thin emulsion films. Now for my 35 mm i am using Ethol UFG what i found really magic but i have to ask for a friend to buy it for me in New York, too expensive. So I am thinking give a second try with this two bath.

by Hernan Zenteno | 07 May 2009 13:05 (ed. May 7 2009) | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Sorry, I don’t have table spoon measure rules for this formula. Some of the ingredients are much less than a teaspoon.

I use a cheap digital scale to measure everything…

by Harry Lime | 07 May 2009 13:05 | London, United Kingdom | | Report spam→
Maybe it will helps http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=Tri-X+400&Developer=Rodinal&mdc=Search

by Antonino Condorelli | 07 May 2009 14:05 | Catanzaro, Italy | | Report spam→
I used a lot of Rodinal and Tri-X, but I used a 9% solution of Sodium Sulfite rather than pure water. (This is something that Edwal FG-7 recommended as well) The sodium sulfite is a restrainer that gives a finer grained negative without losing the edge sharpness and tonality that makes Rodinal so attractive. Also shorter development time. (D76 is full os sodium sulfite.) Bill Pierce wrote about this in the old Camera 35 magazine in the 70s. I bought Chock Full of Nuts coffee to get the blue measuring cup to mix the sulfite.

Peter

by Peter Calvin | 10 May 2009 01:05 (ed. May 10 2009) | Dallas, Texas, United States | | Report spam→

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Participants

P.S., Photographer / Designer P.S.
Photographer / Designer
Vienna , Austria
Nigel Gray, Taker of Photos Nigel Gray
Taker of Photos
Sarasota, Fl , United States
Noah Addis, Documentary Photographer Noah Addis
Documentary Photographer
Philadelphia , United States ( PHL )
Matt Gainer, photographer Matt Gainer
photographer
Los Angeles , United States
Alex Magedler, tourist with camera Alex Magedler
tourist with camera
Vienna , Austria ( VIE )
Armando Ribeiro, Freelance Photographer Armando Ribeiro
Freelance Photographer
London , United Kingdom ( GTW )
Fred Lum, Photographer Fred Lum
Photographer
Toronto , Canada ( YYZ )
Hernan Zenteno, Photographer Hernan Zenteno
Photographer
Buenos Aires , Argentina ( EZE )
Joel Sackett, photographer Joel Sackett
photographer
Puget Sound, Washington , United States ( AAA )
Harry Lime, Photographer Harry Lime
Photographer
[undisclosed location].
James Colburn, Photographer/Photo Editor James Colburn
Photographer/Photo Editor
Omaha, Nebraska , United States ( OMA )
Antonino Condorelli, Photojournalist Antonino Condorelli
Photojournalist
Catanzaro , Italy
Peter Calvin, photographer, educator Peter Calvin
photographer, educator
Dallas Tx , United States ( DFW )


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