The Lebanon "garbage dump" story: complete explanation.

“They choose to caption it this way (I had NO control in this matter), they HAD my original caption:”

I used to work for a London photojournalism agency and can confirm that clients DO sometimes change captions to tell the story THEY want to tell.

We had a similar problem after the 7th July bombings, where several captions were changed, making the images very misleading!

Anybody who reflexively holds a photographer responsible for the caption published with his or her photo is either wildly, or willfully, ignorant of how the process works. They get changed all the time. It’s actually rare that the caption is not changed in either a small or big way.

Bruno: strong presentation! I am happy that you have taken the time to show all the photographs as well as the history/story behind the photographs. It is really unfortunate that discussion of this matter devolved into a contest of words and wars. (I actually wasnt even aware of the problem of this photograph/caption, only the ambulance story). For the sake of (hopefully not) elongating this thread, I would like to personally (and publically) thank Bruno for his description above. I trust that this post clearly explains the turn of events which occurred regarding this story and trust this elucidates how (all of us) in the heat of the moment to shoot/see/transmit that time often awakens. And, as Dave writes, magazines/editors change captions ALL the time, and THIS IS THE BENEFIT AND VALUE OF LIGHTSTALKERS: a place in which we can all gather to elucidate (or argue) and understand: a forum in which the profession can meet as a way of sheding light upon our lives, our jobs, our actions.

I stand in full support behind the photographs, the story and the photographer here!

I appreciate this post very much. :))
Thank you.
Cheers,
bob

thanks, Bruno. Youve elaborated your photos very well. I see nothing left to even debate- you went, you took the photos as unbiased as possible, you submitted- end of story. Its a war; both sides attack each other. Great work by the way.

Bruno, thanks for taking the time to do this. I’m also quite relieved to see that the rather vocal conspiracy buffs seem to accept a rational explanation when they see it, but i’m so far dissapointed at what seems like a surprising lack of courage on their behalf when it comes to making amends.

what the hell did Guilad write????

Thank you, Bruno, for your professional response.

Bruno,
Why did you only mention this fauxtography first on September 5th?
Did you ask to both papers to correct it and did they?

I would be more impressed if you would publish your explanation in the Belgian daily, Le Soir, and also get it in Le Vif L’Express that interviewed you but “forgot to mention” to mention these kind of statements as can be read as comment on this post:
http://courrierdeslecteurs.wordpress.com/2006/08/24/2006-08-12-reutersgate/

Look forward to reading your statements in the Belgian press VERY SOON.

PS: someone hereunder made a comment with insinuations I was not using my full name: it is Rudi Roth.

Interesting that Rudi only joined LS a few hours ago and declines to use his (her) full name. That leads me to suspect another group active here with an agenda. I also wonder how Rudi thinks that Bruno controls Le Soir’s (or any other journal’s) content so he can waltz in and publish anything at will. I think there are some pretty strange things going on here.

Note that after this post “Rudi” edited his profile to add additional facts about himself (I will give him the benefit of the doubt that they are accurate).

Yes Neal, your are right on “an agenda”: it is to fight the disinformation in the MSM, because they have “an agenda”.
And Bruno has been great honest to publish his analysis on Libération and here, but who knows about it besides a few?
Yes, he can write a readers’s letter to a daily and because of his reputation he should normally be published. His long letter to Libération, http://www.lightstalkers.org/posts/show/9631 , proves he has that kind of acces to the press.

Bruno is however one of the very few people in the whole world who can pretend having seen the 14 minutes of the death of Mohamed Al Dura, as het stated in that article “Les quatorze minutes de cette vidéo sont absolument insoutenables”.
This is of really great importance if it is true what he states, as NOBODY ELSE in the whole world ever saw these 14 minutes and they even would not exist as several testimonies state (one of them is on http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2006/11/05/al-durah-affair-media-and-jihad-in-france/ )

So it would also be very usefull if Bruno could confirm he saw these or his statement in was only from hear-saying.

Now would that be THE Rudi Roth, Hungarian Consul OR THE Rudi Roth, mathemetician and Yiddish student in Brussels? Wouldn’t want to add to disinformation would we? Gotta love Google!

Lisa, several more on google!
Anyhow give my best regards to Sydney, Bondi beach and several Aussies that for sure might remember me there ;)
Unfortunately you must have been too young when I was there :(

Rudy,
This is NOT fauxtography. I was not even aware of any controversy around this image before the Liberation article by Trigano. I responded in Liberation to an attack in Liberation, which is far more widely read than any Belgian paper (you didn’t have a problem to find my response, for instance…). May I remind you that this image STRENGHTENS the Israeli position? Liberation let me write that article because I was on assigment for THEM during the war. Le soir and Le Vif only publish wire pictures.

As I stated before, I saw the 14 minutes video together with 3000+ other people, most of them international photographers and picture editors, on Friday, September 6 2002, projected at the Campo Santo in Visa pour l’Image in Perpignan. Quite a few LS members were there (before LS existed, of course). It was also an important piece of evidence to condemn in a French court the people who tried to defame Charles Enderlin from France 2.
B.

Bruno,
txs for the explanation. Of course, I found your article in Libération. It just happenend by accident we wrote a similar one as Trigano’s the same day in LLB and checked on follow-ups.

Yes, in a sense it strenghtens Israel’s position.
No, it just puts the church back in the middle where it had to be if no massive disinformation would have occured. When I mentionned Le Soir, it is because these guys need to be in the Guinness for desinformation. Would they refuse to publish a letter you sent them? Worth trying?

On the 14 minutes video, there is a lot to be sayd. I suggest you make your comments on one of the appropriate sites and ensure that you have seen the same thing as the others saw:
http://www.theaugeanstables.com/
http://www.seconddraft.org/

On the court case: it was not used as any evidence, please read the case itself. And anyhow the case will go into appeal. So was the Dreyfus case more than a century before: several appeals before thruth came to surface.

Anyhow, I am very pleased you took the time to react. It honours you much more than some here who start paranoidly threating with justice on based on their own insinuations.

Ignore Rudi Roth. He’s just more wingnut riffraff catcalling from the peanut gallery. Utterly insignificant.

Bruno: at this point, I would suggest that same as I wrote in defense of Tyler. It is immaterial to argue with or confront those who, a priori, decide to attack or remain cynically antagonistic to the revelation of the facts of the incident. As I argued vociferously under the Tyler thread, a photographer’s (or anyone for that matter) ehtical/moral obligation is to describe and reveal as expeditiously as possible the chain of events/images/facts which occurred during a frenzied moment of attack (attack from others). I personally have tried to remain non-partisan and open to all events with regard to the war in Lebanon (the imagery) and in this case it is clear that Bruno’s accusors are the real faux (fau/feau/feu/feau/foux); )))))

The post legitimizes the course of events and candidly, forthwrightly and unequivocally sets right the false accusations as they centered around these images…..

That’s it for me. All has already been said before.

Maybe, someday, we’ll start to dig a ditch for the pool of explanation as to why these things begin in the first place (the rants/the accusations/the enmity/the wars/etc).....

dream on bob, dream on…

bob

Bruno,

What is going on ?

I go to Sderot for the Qassam rockets (nothing compare to the Zelzal you photographed) and when I come back you star in all the Zionist blogs ?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23339_The_Media_Are_the_Enemy&only

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Time_Magazine_Gets_Caught_Lying.asp

How did this happen ?

Maybe you were not careful enough, your reply to my question about Jews and Palestinians both having equal rights to a national homeland and assumed you are a hidden Zionist ?

best,
Eyal

Why does this have to go on and on and on.

In every conflict their is mis-information. Bruno explained the situation. That’s it. Jesus Christ anyone here on LS who was in Lebanon are well aware that Hezbollah were manipulating the truth. You either fell for it or you did not.

For fuc* sake is it only Hezbollah piling on the bullshit. The US Army lies, the British army lies, the IDF (Frequently)
Serb paramilitaries, Somali warlords, Janjaweed militia, The Taliban, the Viet Cong etc etc etc. It’s the manipulate the media age. All those bloggers, armchair observers can go fuc* themselves. Who gives a shit.

On the ground there are many things to consider….staying alive being the #1 priority.

The same shit happened to me in the aftermath of the infamous lynching in Ramallah of the 2 IDF reservists in 2001.(October 2000) I saw as did many other media personel what happened but do you know what…..the piece I did for the Sunday Telegraph was picked up by the Zionist bloggshites & mixed up to the extent that I was nearly involved. Google my name & you will see all that nonsense.

I don’t give a shit. I just ignored it.

So please lets stop this crap once & for all. Ignore Rudi, Guilad & the rest.

I believe Bruno & the others who have been accused of falsifying captions acted correctly.

Eyal refrain from using question marks, it exasperates the problem.

Mark

so does bruno spend all his time writing letters now and chasing down zionist blogs?

i’d rather have him go and take amazing photographs. but then again, i am photographer.

Mark,
I think you really made a point: “anyone here on LS who was in Lebanon are well aware that Hezbollah were manipulating the truth.”
Can you explain why it were then “your blogshites” that had to discover it, made it public worldwide and not people like yourself? Do you mean: “let us do the job and never mind what gets to the public as lies?”
I remembet that Watergate as well as the fake witness on Kuwaiti babies or the WMD’s in Irak was published by the MSM. Why did the MSM and people like yourself not do the job correctly in this case?

“Who gives a shit?” Reuters did and fired the guy. So, some care about it and that makes the difference between those that care and those that don’t. Am sure you get that picture.

And show us similar cases, as you pretend they exist from other sides or in other conflicts, whereby professional photographers, such as the Reuters guy and many others, were even the source of the desinformation.

Best. R.

For Dave Yoder, am sure you would be a perfect MBA in insignificance and PhD in insults whenever these would exist. You just proved it by yourself with your reaction.

For Gayle, what has my family to do with all this?

Rudi,

I don’t know you and to be honest I did not have the time to even read all this thread.
Just so your comment to Gayle (I don’t even know what she wrote) to you)
My advice: Ignore her. Just don’t answer any ridicules accusation she may drag you into answering.

Let’s us all ask Gayle politely to keep her comments to other threads – she can open her own thread for any personal accusations she may have of You Rudi or of me (as she did before) or anyone else. Let’s not let her take over each discussion here as she did before. Gayle: Please stay away from discussion to which you don’t really contribute any Value other than personal attacks. Thank You.

Correction for the sake of sanity & without prejudice

lynching in Ramallah of the 2 IDF reservists in 2001 Was in fact October 2000.

Dave,
I am just amazed that in this last war so much desinformation was created by all means in the press, and that most find it a normal case.
The day we heard about the increased cancer danger after the spil of fuel oil in Lebanon, we did our own investigation with several UN agencies and the WHO. We concluded it with another investigation when the Fisking on depleted uranium reached the whole world press. What we learned is documented in
http://courrierdeslecteurs.wordpress.com/2006/11/03/2006-11-02-presse-cancerigene-et-appauvrie/

Amazing that none of the thousands of “professional journalists” weren’t able to ask the straitforward questions showing it was all fake, but immediately were distributing those rumors around the world.
Only the BBC made some reservations at the time:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5255966.stm
“It is premature to derive any conclusion on the type of oil and the potential health impacts before having conducted a sample analysis of the spill,” said Luisa Colasimone.

And of course, request for rectification in the papers was rejected. that’s the kind of MSM press we are facing and to which several of your collegues, luckily not all!, collaborate without any reservation. So I suggest to Gayle when she writes “the liars at little green footballs again.”, she doesn’t forget the MSM also.

best. R.

Only one thing to say on all this…

I think that it is impossible to have a fair and reasoned debate while there is a war going on

If you win an arguement on the internet , you are still a moron…

Oh dear that was two things…

Dear Rudi,
Were you there? Because if you weren’t, then you are about as useful as an air guitarist in a philarmonic orchestra. I don’t know any of the gentlemen on this site, but given the fact that they had the balls to go there says a lot more about them than some basement dwelling armchair warrior who is probably afraid of his own shadow. You may as well be talking about the dark side of the moon for all the difference it makes here.

People will have a lot more time and respect for you if they actually see you on-site where its happening, so why don’t you pluck up the courage and join the guys by going to the next big story.Then people might start sucking up to you the way they do with Bruno (not jealous, are we?)

Rudi,

Thanks for the compliment, I’ve worked hard at it. Jeff has a point, don’t you think? So many members of the Fighting 101st Keyboardists, so few willing to go live it. Don’t pretend your post wasn’t an attack on Bruno from an ignorant outsider’s perspective—it was exactly that. Your particular MSM conspiracy fantasies are farcical. You just don’t know what you’re talking about.

Master Yoder,
I have a funny feeling that Rude Roth (or whatever his name is) would fill his colostomy bag if he saw Bruno coming towards him. Leave your cellar, son and go somewhere they don’t fire paintballs for fun, but something considerably more painful and stand up and be counted. You might even find yourself a girlfriend and gain some self esteem.

You know what all this “Shut up cause you have not been there” reminds me ?

It reminds me of Israeli army Generals.

Israeli army generals think that they and only they know how to solve the problems Israel is having with the Palestinians – they claim that since these are security issues only people who have been in the battle field can know what to do.

Well, just as I tell the Israeli army that there are other views, and that they must listen to opinion to those who never held a gun (I think that Israel for example would benefit greatly from a female Defense minister or PM) There are legitimate views from those who never held a camera or dodged bullets on the front line.

This is just too much deja vu=

Simon :))))))......

AN ASIDE: THESE PERSONAL AND VULGAR ATTACKS AGAINST GAYLE ARE ASSANINE, TOTALLY MORONIC AND COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS. GROW UP AS YOUR WORDS AND BEHAVIOR ARE ENTIRETLY HUMUNCULIAN….

the attackers not only lack decency, but frankly, professionally and honorably speaking, balls. chill

b

I completely agree with you Eyal. Next time you go to the dentist, we will get a car mechanic to fix your teeth for you, okay?

Bob,

In the immortal words of De-Niro in taxi Driver:

(Italian accent) “Are you talking to me ?”

Bruno,

great work! thank you for sharing it.

i expect 4-5 of the usual suspects to emerge on this thread. i counted 2 so far. the rest must be asleep. ah, well….not too long now.

Eyal,

Who are you quoting? Unless I missed it, I didn’t see anyone write that. You are a journalist, aren’t you?

Anyway, I suppose the point of your post must be that first-hand experience does not offer any benefits, expertise or knowledge. Guess I can fire my doctor and just consult the internet from now on.

eyal: in the immortal words of Bobby (Jack Nicolson) in Five Easy Pieces: “You play the piano all day and then jump on a horse, you could get cramps….”

no i wasnt referring to you (not here) but to all of the people (maybe you 2) who’ve set the standard for professional debate bar extraordinarily low by personalizing…last night i read another thread where all kinds of ridiculous vularity (something Im totally, usually, in support of) and sexualized attacks against her and others….see my Public Service Post Announcement as a remedy to all this ball-engorged bravado….anyway….

done now here (sorry Bruno for hijacking!)

b

Bob:
5 easy pieces: one of my favorites. Together with Take a walk on the wild side by Reed.. Makes us old farts though… But couldn’t care less. In those times they were only hijacking planes…

Bob,

That is fine: I don’t know how to play piano nor do I ride and I still get cramps.
so i guess it is something built in not dependent on any particular activity.

Best,
Eyal

You don’t question Bruno’s photo of a missle launcher in a truck because it agrees with your agenda. The things you don’t agree with, you question its/his/her integrity. Propaganda dissemination 101. Earlier there were attacks on Bruno for being a bad source, now there is not. Interesting…

My mother caught me in the basement again….

I am not supposed to be on the computer, as I am grounded because I pushed the neighbor’s kid sister down at the playground last week. Any ways, my mother is looking over my shoulder and making me apologize for masquerading as a journalist again. You see I have acute Asperger Syndrome and sometimes I cope with my affliction by becoming an authority. To those I have offended I apologize. Now I am off to the living room for some orange drink.

very interesting! That individual is probably not aware that ID theft is considered as a federal crime in the US and several other countries in the world. I just waiting for the IP-address of the ID thief before supplying it to appropriate law enforcement.

Of course, if the ID thief would have the gutts to identify himself or herself AND apologize, I would stop my complaint.
—
Update:
I know from which location the above person is operating, and I don’t think that the particular corporation would like to hear that from their location someone is abusing an ID.

Bruno Stevens has shown integrity and honesty. Any photographer should recognize the uncomfortable situation he is in and be supportive. No one should be bashing him for taking the high road. Lightstalkers is a photo “community” where we should be supporting one of our own who does the right thing. We can all learn from this unfortunate situation for we may all find ourselves in this position at some point.

It goes without saying…great photo’s Bruno!

To “jack” (who ever you may be)

What you wrote is nonsense.

For a long time I explained here very simple issue (it goes back to the ambulance story):

I trust Bruno 100%.

This means that if he said something he saw/heard / smelled/ touched has seen like/ smelled like X I know it is X.

But if Bruno says his conclusion, or a movie that he saw gave him a certain impression that events he was not a witness too occurred in a certain way it is diffreent from giving a direct testimony on facts he says he saw on his own. Hope that is clear.

Leave it to Gayle to come up with Fresh new and Ridicules personal accusations.

Gayle, You were asked before not to post in threads I participate in (it was not me who asked you that) and I ask you now: Please stay off threads in which your only contribution is to hijack the thread.

This thread is not a film biography of Robert de-Niro and not a place for your ridicules personal accusations of me and others. Just stay away.

Gayle,

Don’t hijack this thread as well for your personal problems.
Just stay away please. Thank you.

Gayle,

My suggestion to you is to delete the personal accusations of other people you have spread all over this thread and stay away. Also, please avoid personal attacks on any LS member.

These are simple rulls that will help you and us here to use LS.
If you can’t avoid ridiculus personal attacks just do it on other threads you open specialy for this.

This spread was about Bruno and the Lebanon photos not about the people you want to insult.

Gayle,

Of course you as an American have free speech rights. The issue here is more of judgment and wisdom of how (not) to use it.

yes, and so why don’t you use these two things?

I read you loud and clear and understand perfectly:
You are an American and there for you have the right to insult everyone else.

Please do both us of favor and re-read what I wrote you and “Freedom of speech” and wisdom – it is based on what a great American (Ben Franklin) once said:

“Thank god for giving us the Freedom of speech and the wisdom to know when not to use it”

Eyal (over and out)

I think garbage dump is the perfect title for this thread now…

This story should make people think twice about the risks of getting too personal on the web (especially on a site like LS where most of us are using our real ID)!

http://www.itpro.co.uk/storage/news/95853/uks-first-internet-rage-attack.html

Please stop now, there really is nothing new to add, it’s just getting really out of hand!

Edit: That link doesn’t appear to work now, but this one covers the same story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6059726.stm

So I am sorry that happened to you. I see it has bothered you. And my opinion of it is only my opinion. You have every right to yours.

Case on ID theft is closed! The individual had the gutts and I thanked him for that. As respect to him and his courage I will not dislose his ID.
I will delete the related posts probably tomorrow after a good sleep.

Regarding Mark’s remark above
“But then can we be sure Rudi lives in Brussels & Gayle in Montana. They could live 20 Klicks apart. Spooky!!”
Too bad its such a long way. I am sure we would get well along around table with several Belgian beers and explain here a lot about general relativity as well as human relativity.

Back on the job for now!

What do you look sweet! Gayle. Your sis also!
No there is almost nihil chance I’ll might come to Montana, though I have been sevetal times on the west coast. But if you happen to travel to Europe I definitely would like to hear your opinion about the gold standard in exchange for chocolate ;-)

I just did a quick clean-up of some of my posts. More changes when some more time. Access is somtimes slow from here. Maybe you might want to do the same as some of your posts were just replies and nobody might understand them anymore. (some probably never did. sorry, couldn’t stop me typing that one ;-) )

And be assured I’ll not tell Eyal that it was you! I’ll keep the ID private.

OK, Rudi, I will. Thanks.

Interesting Article.