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The Next Level

So I’ve been on LS for a while now and like most of you guys I love the site. I’ve found last minute places to stay while on assignment, learned about contests and grants and gotten to see a lot of great photography.

The one thing I haven’t gotten is any work. For whatever reason the assignments section of the site isn’t getting as many posts as it should. As a freelancer I know how hard it is to find work, but if we are going to make this site an even bigger success, I think we have to start encouraging the editors among us to post jobs more often. I’ve tried to pass along things that I find but I wanted to post this to encourage others to do the same.

In other news I was at Photokina and it was awesome, was anyone else there?

Damaso Reyes

by [a former member] at 2006-10-08 16:05:10 UTC (ed. Mar 12 2008 ) NYC , United States | Bookmark | | Report spam→

Damaso, I have a feeling that the assignments section will always remain under utilized and I will tell you why. You can probably guess some of the reasons. First of all, editors with decent assignments arent likely to post here: they get inundated with silly responses and they get scared off; moreover, they already have an ample network of people to choose from. Plus they still tend to work off an older model of editor/photographer relationship. It is true that several editors have ventured to post here, and some apparently have been pleased, but I am willing to bet you that most editors would use this site as a means of locating photographers in specific locations where they cannot find anyone or send anyone, and contact them directly by getting info from their profiles, rather than post general calls which bring them unwanted attention and lots of useless pleas for work. This is actually more or less how LS is set up: to facilitate their finding you in a direct and discrete manner.

Editors were initially put off, as well, by the malfunctioning of the site when the numbers of members skyrocketed and a new server was needed to handle the flow. I know several editors who claimed they couldnt navigate the site easily and just stopped trying due to frustration. I think they will return eventually, because LS is getting lots of good press, and it has improved. But I still dont think they will be foolish enough to post general calls; they will fish at their leisure and invisibly. You may have noticed that most of the editors on here (and there are many) do not furnish much information, not even an email address, and they dont often identify their publication. They want to maintain their privacy and thereby their control. They can find you, but you cannot find them.

Another and rather lamentable aspect is the use of the site by editors who are less, shall we say, scrupulous in their dealings and are trawling the site for younger talent in order to find a cheaper deal. This site is populated by a mix of people, but there are many younger photographers who have no grounding in the business side of things and have no idea how they should conduct themselves, what to charge, how to read a contract etc. Plus they are so hungry for work, or merely for publication, because they think it’s the only way to get ahead, that they are tempted to sell themselves short, and that becomes a problem for all of us.

LS is primarily a forum for the exchange of information, not an active marketplace, though our profiles are set up, clearly, with the intention of allowing clients to find us should the need arise. Therefore it works a bit like a virtual agency or your online office, but I am not sure it can be made to generate assignments on a regular basis. The market these days is heavily tilted in favor of the buyer, so there is no need for them to come here shopping. Plus, photojournalism is all about being in the right place at the right time, and as Chris Morris commented recently on a video interview, they wont consider a story nowadays unless it is definitely slotted to run, so that means that their regular contract guys will get that story, and the rest of us throwing story pitches will be left in the cold because the magazine will be less likely to experiment with something that is not already on the menu.

The jobs that you have been so good to post here are not assignments, they are permanent positions with papers and so on. That is a great thing, but rather different. I would welcome more art directors too — a whole lot of money can be made by doing commercial assignments and then investing that money in your documentary projects. But the means of getting those jobs remain pretty much tied to the old ways: agency representation or self promotion. Plus most art directors wouldnt think of posting on a site that is weighted toward PJ work and social documentary.

But if you have ideas about how to recruit more editors and have them use the forum as a way of distributing assignments, by all means put them out there. Let’s see what everyone thinks.

by Jon Anderson | 08 Oct 2006 20:10 (ed. Oct 8 2006) | Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
Jon, you have hit the nail right on the head. I have picked up work through being a LS member – the editor got in touch with me and a good job followed. While I have responded using private mail to direct postings on this site, I have never received a response. No doubt because when a posting goes up, those editors are inundated with applications. Case in point – the posting still going from Sam Barcroft on photogs wanted. That post is ancient.

I think part of the problem is that anyone can sign up, so how do editors actually know what the calibre is of LS members? Sure, some people will say that you start with that person’s portfolio, but that is only part of the equation of a business relationship with someone

It is great to see the job postings from yourself Damaso. I think one area where LS excels (amongst many things), is in people being able to ask for business related advice and getting a wide variety of feedback. Sion’s sermons on copyright spring to mind. I still refer photogs to that if they are a bit in the dark about copyright as a starting point

As for ideas to get more editors using this as a place to recruit people for jobs – no idea really. I just don’t think LS is the model to answer that question. It is more geared for editors coming here to find people. Maybe one way it could work is if there was a way to rate an editor you dealt with through LS and they could rate you (a bit like when you buy and sell on online auction sites). Just an idea that sprang to mind, but I doubt editors would have the time as it is and I doubt that would take as there probably won’t be enough editors coming to LS to recruit people for jobs in the first instance.

by Thomas Pickard | 09 Oct 2006 10:10 | Male', Maldives | | Report spam→
I know this is a bit of a tangent from Damaso’s question. But perhaps one way to get noticed by the editors who do trawl through here is to start self-marketing here, including by doing joint projects with other LS photographers.
We’re all over the world. There are same/similar issues in those different parts of the world. Why not collaborate on projects that feature these same/similar issues? We benefit from the self-assignment, if someone more experienced is willing to curate, then we can learn from that person, and yes, this might bring attention to what we do.

by Robert Go | 09 Oct 2006 11:10 | Colombo, Sri Lanka | | Report spam→
How about a section where folks can post their promos / flyers. I messed around with this a while back and a few people stuck theirs on here. Not only was it fun, it was also a way to share ideas and such like. I’ll go find it and add a new promo from recent work. Visually it would be a treat. Perhaps a permanent link could be posted in the resource section. Worth a try at least.

by Paul Treacy | 09 Oct 2006 23:10 | Manhattan, United States | | Report spam→
Here is THE PROMO CARD link.

by Paul Treacy | 09 Oct 2006 23:10 (ed. Oct 9 2006) | Manhattan, United States | | Report spam→
What works….howabout that? “Find a Photographer” at asmp.org. The directory here does not work for an editor looking for a photographer in a specific location. Let’s say you want a photographer or photojournlist in London. You have at least (at least!) 20 variations on “photographer”. Just under ‘freelance photographer’ there are a number of variations. Under “photojounalist” there are a number of variations, including those that are misspelled. There are 12 to 13 variations on London. The way it is presently, I can’t imagine an editor being able to make an intelligent search of the database with any confidence. It’s simply a crap shoot. Just my 2c worth. (FWIW)

by John Robert Fulton Jr. | 09 Oct 2006 23:10 (ed. Oct 9 2006) | Fort Worth, Texas, United States | | Report spam→
Thinking as an editor what I would look for is daily production (weekly or monthly) A place where I can find different stories and different angles. As such If could search daily or weekly on a continiously updated seccion where thumbnails where available and the direct contact of the shooter who is offering the story, now that would be of real interest to me. Not just a place where I can find people when I need them but a place where I can find programmed production of any topic that its members would like to post. That would be the way to generate work flow and income. One could think It would divert the original porpuse of LS but its obvious to me that it’s the next logical step. I would even dare to venture that a small comission of the sale could be kicked back to LS in order to expand server capacity so it can expand it capabilities in all directions.


by Tomas Stargardter | 09 Oct 2006 23:10 | Managua, Nicaragua | | Report spam→
John, the member directory is functioning better, but you are right it would be still better if we could formalize the categories a bit. I think that can probably be done. But Fabien fixed a glitch already that makes it considerably faster and more efficient.

Tomas, what you are proposing is creating a sort of agency within the context of LS — I mean if you think about it, that is pretty much what you are describing, a place where current work can be seen in a centralized location (instead of just a plethora of galleries; these presumably would be organized in terms of chronology, recent work on an ongoing basis); then that work would serve to channel potential clients to the photographers. It is a little different than just offering a geographical search function, because the stories would presumably sell themselves through their visual prowess. well, it might interest you to know that Aurora now has a group identity or “site” within LS, so I suppose you could take that to the next level and create a group within LS that is not directly affiliated to any one agency but is defined in some other way. However, as I stated above, bear in mind that editors these days are not going to scan a given site to look for a story that they havent already thought of or had confirmed as part of that week’s publishing agenda, and sites like VII (which do exactly what you are describing, producing a cycle of recent stories to attract attention and create an atmosphere of excitement and productivity) dont exist so much to sell the stories that appear on the web page, but to use those stories as a kind of marketing leverage in order to create a buzz. The stories themselves are produced and sold by other means. Nonetheless, if someone, or some people rather, want to figure out how to put such a thing together and run it, well it could certainly serve as an interesting experiment. I would be interested to see where it goes.

by Jon Anderson | 10 Oct 2006 00:10 | Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→

Bingo! Like the field of dreams principle. “If you build it, they will come.” Of course you got to fill it with quality stories to create that buzz in order to start momentum going… All its needs is to start editors looking and generate one good sale, once it does that, then its up to us to put more steam into it.


by Tomas Stargardter | 10 Oct 2006 01:10 | Managua, Nicaragua | | Report spam→
Jon—before it wasn’t working. Now it’s working. No disagreement. The search parameters are so loosey-goosey that it’s impractical. I know an editor who tried to use the database (after it was fixed) and he just threw up his hands. Find-a-photographer at ASMP has it nailed down. Unfortunately, most of the photographers are commercial/studio guys who couldn’t tell a story with pictures if their lives depended on it, according to my editor colleague. Me? I think this is such a great website and I appreciate it very much. I am not (NOT) complaining. I’m simply pointing out why an editor might not find this a useful resource.

by John Robert Fulton Jr. | 10 Oct 2006 01:10 (ed. Oct 10 2006) | Fort Worth, Texas, United States | | Report spam→
Well Tomas, have at it. I have done my bit, I am tired and I just cannot spare the time at the moment, but if you want to start something along the lines you are suggesting, put that fertile imagination of yours to work and set it up. We will come!

Yes, John, absolutely, the categories are way too loosey goosey (same thing throughout the resources section as well. Grants has three different headings. Things need to be streamlined). Anyone wants to find me, they can do so, because my area is so small I inevitably appear on a search, but forget a city with a larger concentration of photographers. We need to fix this, because in my opinion the search function is one of the most valuable things about LS in terms of facilitating editor/photog relations. It has worked for me in the past and I want it to work harder! Well, let’s see what Shinji has in mind on his never ending list of things to do.

by Jon Anderson | 10 Oct 2006 01:10 | Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
OK will do,

First I need more information about this site, Where is it hosted, Who runs it, and any other tech info in this site? Direct me to him/her and we will get the ball rolling.


by Tomas Stargardter | 10 Oct 2006 16:10 | Managua, Nicaragua | | Report spam→
Boy am I glad that I got this discussion started! I look forward to a new and improved directory so editors can find the photogs they are looking for, thanks guys!

by [former member] | 10 Oct 2006 16:10 | NYC, United States | | Report spam→
Not just the photogs but the photos too.


by Tomas Stargardter | 10 Oct 2006 16:10 | Managua, Nicaragua | | Report spam→
I think that an improved directory would be a great addition for LS……even better would be a way to keyword our profile so that it could be indexed by web crawlers and robots so that our names pop up in Google searches! After that its up to your individual website to sell you over the competition— in todays market your website is your portfolio.

by [former member] | 11 Oct 2006 00:10 | New York, United States | | Report spam→
Andy, etc. someone just sent me this, may apply..


by [former member] | 11 Oct 2006 00:10 | Brooklyn, NY, United States | | Report spam→
I’m an editor (for two years now). Worked as a freelance photog for 10 years. Love editing. I always liked the business side of photography. Looked forward to prolonged negotiations with lawyers re: contracts. Editing side of photo has a lot of business chat to it. Because I freelanced, I purposely work at a place where majority of hires are freelancers. I know that world and try to make it a better place (talking cash and rights here).

I was suprised at the international nature of Lightstalkers. I posted help about China for an upcoming trip I’m taking. Very impressed with the wide-ranging locations of posters.

For me, international is the toughest type of photographer to find. Place I work is nonprofit so we don’t have CNN cash pots. We couldn’t swing sending US freelancer overseas. So by default, I go through Getty (I work with a great agent and they have good photogs). We have one maybe two international stories a year (depends on grants). I go through Getty because I haven’t found a site linking internationally-based photogs. Could be a good avenue for lightstalkers.

Another thing – multimedia. If any photogs have sound/video capabilities – make that obvious. Even my little publication is hitting that world strong. I can now produce my own audio/photo shows. Video is next. I like MM a lot but not everyone’s cup of tea.

I just included a multimedia section in our photog database. Out of 400, only two photographers (in US) are MM ready. May be worth adding multimedia as a discussion site at LS. I’m still unclear given newness how to price and reuse. I haven’t hired freelancer for gallery work yet. But talk about maybe looking for finished projects to post. (issue is meeting ever-fresh website needs and not having photographers on-staff to produce enough content).

Not many answers out there for editors because freelancers aren’t doing MM a lot yet. I tried to join up with Editorial Photographers for discussions but they ban editors from chat rooms.

I just did an all-nighter on production (editing sound) to hit a deadline on a gallery. So does that mean freelancers bill out for production or expect client publication to produce? If I billed out at my old freelance rates for 28 hours of production – I couldn’t hire myself. Too pricey for my publication. Can freelancers recoup production costs with reuse rates? I don’t know.

Sorry. On another tangent there. I can just see this new storytelling world opening up. Maybe multimedia would be a good new discussion category. At least for me : )


by [former member] | 30 Dec 2006 16:12 | Washington, DC, United States | | Report spam→
Yes I remember this thread. Its been a little busy the last four months withe elections and all but I am still working on it. Slowly but yes still working.


by Tomas Stargardter | 02 Jan 2007 16:01 | Managua, Nicaragua | | Report spam→
Tomas, good to know. I would be curious to hear what you come up with.

Sevans: multimedia is all over LS. Check Here for one of mine, and many others have posted invitations to view their projects. Also, here and here for discussions of more theoretical issues. This thread gives a link to Kadir’s Diamond MM piece and discusses it. Also check the tutorials section for various threads on how to make MMs using various techniques.

by Jon Anderson | 02 Jan 2007 20:01 | Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
Formalizing categories is a must in my opinion (If LS is to be used as a tool for finding photographers). Key wording is a great idea with certain abilities is a good idea too, ie multimedia, studio/location lighting, film/digital etc etc etc.

I spent some time looking at other profiles though, and there are a number of things photographers can do to help make the process of being found/hired much, much easier:

1) People need to understand and fill out their personal information- if it is private, fine, make it private, but fill out things like “Home Base”- it is very important to editors to know where you are.

2) Under profession, just list “photographer”, or “photojournalist”- things like “storyteller”, “dreamer” etc. say nothing to someone looking to hire a photographer. It is also helpful to state right away that you are a freelancer.

3) Don’t misspell photojournalist.

4) Put down at least an email (this was the number one problem I saw). Or a mobile number would be great- if you want work, editors need to know how to contact you- oh, and they are probably not going to send you a PM, because they are not going to check theirs.

5) if you are freelance, DO NOT put an organization down- it makes it look like you have a staff job, and are not looking for freelance work.

6) Take the time to upload 10-20 pictures to the LS gallery, so a quick glance will let people know what kind of photographer you are.

7) It’s worth saying twice- put down some contact information- you would be amazed how many people have not filled this out.

by [former member] | 03 Jan 2007 02:01 | New Delhi, India | | Report spam→
All good points Scott. I dont think that one’s email address is visible to anyone outside of LS. If you mark it private, only inner circle members can see it, but if you do not mark it private, it can still only be seen by LS membership. However, your cell phone number is visible to all, I believe, so that is the most important “public” contact datum. Location, clear contact data, and a solid gallery — these are crucial.

by Jon Anderson | 03 Jan 2007 03:01 | Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic | | Report spam→
I have to preface this posting by saying that I have used this site only occasionally and have not posted anything to my profile yet…that will change this weekend when I have a few free moments. However I would like to say that my current job as a photographer is due to one of Damaso’s job postings. (THANK YOU Damaso) I check here for assignments occasionally because I always am looking for some signs, some indication of how to make the transition from staff photographer to freelance. I am only 25 and still have A LOT to learn re: the business and improving my images, etc. I have learned that personal contacts always work best and I can truly understand why editors do not post more freelance work on these boards. That said, I was would like to pose some questions to all the great freelancers on here…What was it that got you on a roll with assignments that freelancing became a viable option? Was it contacts from schooling/staff jobs? or just simply a portfolio that brought people to you? Any insight for a young photographer just trying to figure it all out would be greatly appreciated.

by Steven J. Dundas | 19 Jan 2007 17:01 | Asbury Park, NJ, United States | | Report spam→

Interesting thread. It has already been pointed out that the ‘purpose’ of the LS web is networking and information sharing with a bias/focus (pun intended) on PJ/documentary type work. It’s a great community and certainly includes a broad audience. While I have seen some activity on my web site based on my limited participation with the LS community I have not seen any direct commercial results or inquiries that can be tied directly back to this connection. Creating/enhancing this aspect sounds like a good idea – something to avoid: there are already a number of ‘group compete’ type assignment/project/work sites (i.e. guru.com); overall I think that they are not good for ‘creative types’ – things seem to boil down to ‘bottom feeding’ with low return for your work and ‘rights grabbing’…

What I have noted is that getting listed on photographer and photographic service type web sites does yield leads if not actual work/projects. I suggest that LS members looking for work include this as part of their web marketing approach. If you are looking for regional/local work then find sites with such listings. If your targets are broader then consider the larger index sites. Something else to consider: as we get ‘better connected’ if becomes more likely that you will be ‘found’, esp. for regional/local assignments; it follows (again, as indicated above by other posters) that more assignments may be awarded to photographers who are geographically closer to needed subjects… Here is a page with some of these types of links.

BTW – I am not a PJ so my thoughts may not be relevant to the PJ arena; most of my work is documentary/travel; I am finding that doing some non-commercial/non-editorial shoots may be helpful in keeping the lights on – besides, you never know where a connection might lead.



by Dale Reagan | 19 Jan 2007 18:01 | Savannah, Ga, United States | | Report spam→
If you want an assignment, go ahead and give yourself one. I’m seeing a lot of young photographers (I’m not speaking of you Damaso) that are waiting to be hired before they make any pictures. It’s the visual equivalent of a musician waiting for a record contract before making any music. Now, if your talking about making a living that’s a completely different story.

The problems in our business today are not about getting a paying assignment from a magazine or photo editor. If there was a market for serious work, then the assignments would be there.

The “cause” of our problems is that the people in charge of the publishing world don’t see any value in what we do. The “symptom” is that there’s no work. I’m speaking of those at the highest coporate level not the photography department level. Those in the photography departments are naturally feeling the same pain as us.

At this point all content is equal. So it really doesn’t matter how smart and how hard you’ve worked to become a great photographer. All that matters is price, availability and ease of use. What we do has been quantified, and in many cases quality is just not part of the equation.

Look for consistent examples of serious work being published. Well, not even serious, just quality work. There’s exceptions to be found for sure, but the majority of photography being published today isn’t very good.

There’s two questions to answer:

Is there a market for great photography or are the coporate heads right?

If there is a market, how do photographers tap into it?

O.K. now that I’ve stepped in it again…please continue.


by Kenneth Jarecke | 19 Jan 2007 21:01 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
Where is Montana, anyway?

by [former member] | 19 Jan 2007 21:01 | Back home again in Louisiana, United States | | Report spam→
Thank you Dale & Ken for your responses…I will refine my questions to the forum with a little background first. I’m new to the site and currently make a decent living from photography. I shoot for a publication company that puts out a weekly business journal, and approx. 30 magazines a year on various topics (unfortunately, none of which allow for much creative freedom). I have numerous clients in the music industry, and even do some product/catalog work for corporations. All this keeps me busy and able to support myself through photography. I also have a pretty could grasp of the internet’s assault on print media and the trickle down effect it has on the industry and everyone involved. My question to everyone is, how does a working photographer who has a growing portfolio, industry experience, and is just getting f*ing antsy to get out in the world and capture life outside of New Jersey, take it to the next level ? Being a photojournalist and telling visual stories would be the next level for me…Does it take a leap of faith or just a whole lot of patience & persistence? I’m curious to see how successful freelancers got started after having the experience, the portfolio, and the business acumen. I guess I end this reiterating Ken’s question:

If there is a market, how do photographers tap into it?


by Steven J. Dundas | 20 Jan 2007 01:01 (ed. Jan 20 2007) | New Brunswick, NJ, United States | | Report spam→
You need a personal vision and great ideas, and lots of persitance Steven.

by [former member] | 20 Jan 2007 02:01 | Back home again in Louisiana, United States | | Report spam→
This is not really Damaso’s topic anymore but…

It’s probably easier to get ‘out in the world’ BEFORE you are successfull with business. You’re less tied up and you’re not accustomed to a more or less regular incoming flow of money. In your case Steven I’d look around in the world of New Jersey. Guess there is plenty of photojournalism around and you could still keep your business rolling until you decide to make the move… Or make a dramatic shift: drop it all, take your sleeping bag, one camera, one lens and go to the place in the world you would never want to go to.

by [former member] | 20 Jan 2007 03:01 | Phnom Penh, Cambodia | | Report spam→
I apologize for steering it off course…I’m new to the site and saw slow thread with an apropos title for my inquires. Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I guess the real intent of the question was to get people to share their stories of how they turned Photojournalism into a career. I was attempting to turn the thread into a discussion on getting to “the next level” for not just my own personal case but for all who are just starting out so we can listen and learn.



interesting comment you made…A few projects in the “world of NJ” are in the works yet everyday I think about taking the plunge and making the dramatic shift.

by Steven J. Dundas | 20 Jan 2007 03:01 (ed. Jan 20 2007) | New York CIty, United States | | Report spam→
Steven, I hope you don’t think I was going after you there. My criticism was not aimed at anyone in particular. I was just addressing trends I’ve been seeing.

John and Andy’s advice is right on. I’d add that the pictures you make need to be good.

Photojournalists always want to get on a plane, specially the ones just starting out. It would be an interesting exercise to see how many Lightstalkers would love to travel to New Jersey to make pictures, or New Orleans, Phnom Penh, or even Montana (which is just north of Wyoming btw). The point is that there’s images and stories to find wherever you are. There’s always another photographer wishing that they were where you are right now.

When I was starting out, all the young wire stringers wanted to have a 300/2.8. The ones that did would carry the thing around everywhere they went. Somehow, they felt that big piece of glass would seperate them from the amateurs or wantabes running around. It gave them instant status. The same kind of thing that can happen with a press pass.

The desire to be seen as something special is easy to understand. We all want to be recognized for our work. I think this desire is part of the trap being used against us today. Along with a paying job, the lure of having some established publication or agency attatched to your name is being used to get photographers to take jobs and sign contracts that are not in their best interests.

Guys like Gilles Caron or HCB didn’t look for publications or agencies for a license to make good pictures. The agencies came out of the photographer’s need to market their work, so they could keep making good pictures. Making good pictures is what these guys did. Right now photographers exist to serve the needs of the mega-agencies. It’s backwards.

O.K. I can see I’m starting to drift here.

Just make good pictures. I’m not sure about the future of this business. I’m not sure how to break through. I guess it’s similar to Steve Martin’s advice on how to be a millionaire…“First you get a million bucks…”


by Kenneth Jarecke | 20 Jan 2007 04:01 | Montana, United States | | Report spam→
Actually, Steve Martin’s joke was “How to be a millionaire and NEVER pay taxes…”
Surely an appropriate joke for this thread.
-Jerry (reformed Montanan)

by [former member] | 20 Jan 2007 04:01 | Chiang Mai, Thailand | | Report spam→

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Jon Anderson, Photographer & Writer Jon Anderson
Photographer & Writer
Ocala Florida , United States
Thomas Pickard, Photographer Thomas Pickard
Rarotonga , Cook Islands
Robert Go, Photographer | Writer Robert Go
Photographer | Writer
Melbourne , Australia
Paul  Treacy, Photographer Paul Treacy
London , United Kingdom ( LGW )
John Robert Fulton Jr., Photographs John Robert Fulton Jr.
Spring Lake, Michigan , United States
Tomas Stargardter, Photojournalist Tomas Stargardter
(Photo Editor at LA PRENSA)
Managua , Nicaragua ( MGA )
Steven J. Dundas, Environmental Economist Steven J. Dundas
Environmental Economist
[undisclosed location].
Dale Reagan, Photographer, Consultant Dale Reagan
Photographer, Consultant
Savannah, Ga , United States ( SAV )
Kenneth Jarecke, photographer Kenneth Jarecke
Montana , United States ( BII )


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