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Times Change...

Ferdinando Scianna always likes to remind that when HIS Magnum membership was being discussed, due to his fashion works there were among the opinions also horrified ones, and he was seen “like a dog in a church” (what’s the English equivalent for this expression?)…

http://www.scenariomag.it/fred-perry-campagna-ss-2013/

by Laura Larmo at 2013-03-10 11:13:34 UTC | Bookmark | | Report spam→

Because the English love their dogs more than most other life forms and no longer go to church there is, as far as I know, no equivalent expression.

by Nigel Amies | 14 Mar 2013 09:03 | Ludwigsburg, Germany | | Report spam→
Though Nigel’s explanation makes more sense see below for an explanation of the expression that, as Nigel also says, seems to have no equivalent in English.

http://italian.about.com/b/2009/06/25/like-a-dog-in-church.htm

by Barry Milyovsky | 14 Mar 2013 13:03 | New York, United States | | Report spam→
Hello again. As it turns out there is a church in America that welcomes dogs:
http://www.salemnews.com/local/x1691794126/Good-dogs-go-to-church

by Barry Milyovsky | 14 Mar 2013 14:03 | New York, United States | | Report spam→
Hey, in latin america in some not center cities is common to find dogs in all places, included churches and did photos of them in hospitals.

by Hernan Zenteno | 14 Mar 2013 17:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Sorry Laura, I think we scape by the tangent, as we said in spanish (escaparse por la tangente). But I don’t get clear the issue of this post. What you want to say about Scianna or about Magnum?

by Hernan Zenteno | 14 Mar 2013 17:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Nigel and Barry,

is there some metaphor for expressing that someone is unpleasant/unwelcome?

Hernan,

the point was that while in the past in Magnum it was almost unthinkable that fashion and photojournalism would’ve gone together (Scianna was admitted anyway), nowadays it’s acceptable that a Magnum photographer does also fashion (see the link). Just came into my mind when I saw the “news” of the new Fred Perry campaign in the Italian weekly magazine L’Espresso couple of weeks ago…

by Laura Larmo | 14 Mar 2013 17:03 | Milan, Italy | | Report spam→
I thought that the worst battle inside Magnum was between who likes Martin Parr and those that didn’t liked his work. Anyway. I don’t see any problem to do fashion works, Sebastiao Salgado did it too. Is something to get money like the past work that a lot of Magnum photographers did for the corporate system (annual books, portraits, etc). Elliott Erwitt is a champion in mix his own work with some advertising job. So, I don’t see any change thru the times. If you mention the awarded photo of Paolo, discussed in another post and in other sites, this is another issue cause Magnum was created to defend the integrity of the work that do the photographers of the agency. Some of the variables they wanted to protect was the caption and the misuse of the photos. This spirit was damaged in some way, Is my personal think, with the photo that Paolo included in his essay he did at Rochester.

by Hernan Zenteno | 14 Mar 2013 18:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Hernan,

first of all I’m not expressing any opinions of mine about Magnum + fashion-or-not-fashion (I don’t know if you saw my post like an opinion to one direction or another?).

Secondly, the fact that the photographer in question is Pellegrin has nothing to do with this, it’s just a coincidence (even though I was afraid someone would misinterpret this, like you apparently did), but he’s a Magnum photographer, and I think the only reason L’Espresso published the small article about the FP campaign is because Pellegrin is Italian. But, as I said, reading it made me remember what I’ve heard Scianna say when recalling the time his membership was being discussed.

by Laura Larmo | 14 Mar 2013 18:03 (ed. Mar 14 2013) | Milan, Italy | | Report spam→
So, maybe the translate of the dog phrase is more interesting?

by Hernan Zenteno | 14 Mar 2013 18:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Alla fine della fiera (= at the end of the day) – most probably.

by Laura Larmo | 14 Mar 2013 19:03 (ed. Mar 14 2013) | Milan, Italy | | Report spam→
there are one phrase in spanish but is very vulgar, coarse or rude: “desubicado como chupete en el culo” (out of place like a pacifier in the ass). Maybe the members of Magnum will be horrified by this expression too

by Hernan Zenteno | 14 Mar 2013 19:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Well, Hernan, that expression seems to catch the spirit of the thing. A bit stronger than the one about the dog, however. It’s quite an image, though, one that I may have a hard time forgetting.

by John Louis Lassen Perry | 15 Mar 2013 16:03 | Liberty Corner, New Jersey, United States | | Report spam→
Yes, sorry. Here, in argentine, we are very dirty mouth. I have to learn how be more measured. We have a lot of this kind of anonymous quotes, some of the more funniest are from Cordoba province whose locals have a particular accent. I was tempted to suggest another less strong but don’t really fit the comparison with the dog in a church cause here is most used to described someone lost. Is: lost like a dog in a bocce court (perdido como perro en cancha de bochas).

by Hernan Zenteno | 15 Mar 2013 21:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→
Yeah, I have mentioned the pacifier expression to a few friends and we have all decided to learn a few more Argentine expressions. Very amusing, and graphic.

by John Louis Lassen Perry | 16 Mar 2013 04:03 | Liberty Corner, New Jersey, United States | | Report spam→
BTW, if you ever see a sex shop catalogue, you’ll find that the “out of place” part of the phrase is arguable :P

by Patricio Murphy | 16 Mar 2013 20:03 | Buenos Aires, Argentina | | Report spam→

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Participants

Laura Larmo, Photographer Laura Larmo
Photographer
Milan , Italy
Nigel Amies, Photographer/writer Nigel Amies
Photographer/writer
[undisclosed location].
Barry Milyovsky, totally unprofessional Barry Milyovsky
totally unprofessional
(emperor of ice cream )
New York , United States
Hernan Zenteno, Photographer Hernan Zenteno
Photographer
Buenos Aires , Argentina ( EZE )
John Louis Lassen Perry, Photoanthropologist John Louis Lassen Perry
Photoanthropologist
Jersey City , United States
Patricio Murphy, Musician, photographer Patricio Murphy
Musician, photographer
Buenos Aires , Argentina


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