Zoom H2 questions

general wisdom for any digital format is to record more data and do what you will latter. not to mention that it takes a little while for the h2 to save mp3 files which is a bit annoying.

couldn’t say about the batteries as mine seems to run for ages and have never been able to put a number on it but partially as i have never used it for two plus hours straight.

audacity is the golden standard for free audio software and with the lame plugin you can export to a healthy 96-128bit 44.1khz mp3 for soundslides.

have thought about strap options but i imagine the handling noise would be really bad, what i am working on now is attaching an external mike to a bag strap and keeping the zoom in a pocket somewhere.

Regarding point 2: according to a radio reporter buddy of mine, you have to devote 100% attention to recording sound/recording an interview. The requirement of full attention to what you’re doing would eliminate the strap option. You just can’t photograph and record audio at the same time. One or the other or both will suck.

Hi Erica,
I also have Zoom H2, I cannot help you too mutch cause i just used it for one project and all that I did was putting audio files in a hard disk with the idea of using tham when i will learn how to do… but one think is sure… with me the batteries didn’t run out so quikly… at list one day (of course switching it on and off and not recording all the time) they lasted…

erica,

i had posted this a while back…as you’ll read, it’s not ideal. i never tried it but it may be worth a try.

http://thetravelphotographer.blogspot.com/2007/02/audio-microphone-mount-system.html

i use another brand for recording and always use mp3 for my soundslides. i use garageband to edit (if you use mac) or the free audacity sound editor

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

t.

erica: i used the zoom h2 for my entire project recently. here’s my experiences in response to your questions.

1. i noticed that it chewed through rechargeables pretty fast, so i used disposables. i got around est. 3-4 hours on one set, recording.

2. bad bad idea. i have some audio at a soccer match that is utterly unsuable because all you hear is my ridiculous mutterings about exposure calculations, clicks, film rewinding, my footsteps. sure, if i was making a documentary about photographing, it’d be wicked nice, but having it on while you photograph…negates having it on in the first place. you want good audio. so what i did was keep it plugged in, ready to turn on. the h2 has a slow boot time, so you have to be smart with this. i’d go into a situation, see how things are developing and which format would be best to pursue. this is the best method i can offer.

3. i’m going to get into soundslides in a week or so, but as sascha said (and told me before i left), better to have more than less. if web ever shifts to hi-def, you’re going to be left high and dry with shitty quality audio. SD cards are cheap these days, and smart recording can cull the fat from your takes.

4. audacity.

I use the Lithium batteries in mine, and they last forever..
I carry the H2 in a Otterbox (3000 – I think) and there is enough room to carry spare batteries in that.
I agree with the above that you can only shoot OR record audio.. doing both does not work, unless audio is only for reference

I have an idea for using XLR connectors to create a strap.. pm me and I can send you pictures of what I am thinking.

I would suggest a SD card with built-in USB connection to save on cables.. and alway record as high quality as possible.. you can always use iTunes to down size/compress.

Erica:
1. Haven’t had the battery problem but I am using disposables.

2. Had an olympus previously and had success adapting an iPod jogging armband holder to strap it to me while shooting. It allowed me to record ambient background sound at things like demonstrations, or group performances while still shooting.
Because of the different size dimensions of the H2 I am still looking for a similar armband solution for it, but will keep you posted with what I come up with.

For recording narrative, interviews etc.. I’d agree its one or the other ( shooting or recording).

3. I’m just starting to try to sort out the pros and cons of Audacity vs. Garageband and would much appreciate the insights of other LSer’s who’ve had more experience with these two programs. Hoping to avoid the cost of Final Cut Pro / FCP Express although I get the feeling from some that this is the best answer, but pricey and with a steep learning curve.

Hope this helps.

I have been using the H2 since it came out and have to say I am very pleased. Whilst I have a number of audio editing programs on my PC (WIN) my preferred editor is Audacity. It just does the job. You will need the Lame encoder as well to convert files to MP3 (because of licensing issues the Lame encoder has to be downloaded separately – there is a link to it on the Audacity site).

I record all important interviews as WAVs and just convert to MP3s as I need. A bit like using RAW in the camera.

Regards

Martin

mark, you don’t get any jostling sounds and pops in your recording from your natural body movement?

I’ve done audio and photos simultaneously. It ain’t easy but its doable with a lot of practice. I wear a pair of headphones and use a shot gun mic. The idea we can’t have audio with camera noise in it needs to be discussed more. If we have to keep doing this, then we might as well get used to camera noise being in our ambient. The only time I wouldn’t make photos is when I’m conducting interviews. I wouldn’t have the mic right next to the camera, that’s just annoying. Hold the mic out at arm’s length to reduce the noise. But since this convergence thing is how we roll, well we all should get used to it.

Always, Erica, if you can, record in .WAV. Martin’s right on the comparision to RAW. As for editing, I go all complicated and use Adobe Audition 1.5.

Bill’s suggestion of using headphones is a good one. You’ll be able to gauge the amount of noise you get and adjust your levels. Also putting foam windscreen on the mic should help reduce noise. You may have to make your own.

Question about memory cards for the H2:

I’ve found a list of “Operation Confirmed SD Cards” at zoom’s site, but which are the most reliable? I’ve read reviews about memory loss and cards coming into pieces; are there any models you know of that I should definitely avoid?

I’m thinking of buying three 4GB SDHC or two 8GB SDHC. B&H has a Kingston 4GB Class 6 on sale for $19. It’s a very attractive price, but I can’t find any reviews for it.

Erica

You can use the tripod mount at the bottom to attach an adapter (male 1/4” x 20) and cord or strap that can then loop through the hole that they usually have. The annoying thing is, as other people have mentioned, if it hangs off you you’ll get lots of footsteps and sounds of it rubbing against you. I’m not sure how well it would work, but I’m thinking that maybe slotting it into the hotshoe on my 5D somehow might be an option…

that’s even worse, greg.

look, the reality is that when you’re recording and moving about, it’s going to make noise in your file. why? because of wind. so you get a mini dead cat and put it over to muffle. nice try, but it won’t cancel it out completely. and mounting it on a camera sounds nice, to focus on photographing, but then you’ll have audio of the shutter, obviously, and also your moving the camera around, it bumping in your hand, the straps. it’s just a ridiculously bad idea overall and i’ve tried it in all ways and found that these two tasks must be done separately if quality is of any concern.

try this. plus in some headphones to your h2 and walk around with your camera next to it. put it on 120 degrees away, or whatever and then come back and see how utterly useless your recording is. now picture doing that at a rally, when people are smacking into you or your camera. not to mention all the footsteps, the air movement. unless you’re a ninja.

I understand it’s not a great solution but with regards to the strap I don’t think it’s a ‘ridiculously bad idea’ if say you want the device to hand quickly. If you want to catch something on audio you can swing the camera down on one shoulder and grab the audio device as it hangs off you other shoulder. It’s more for just having it to hand rather than buried in a bag or pocket. As for it being the hotshoe it’s smaller than most flashes so less risk even in crowded situations – although I admit again not ideal.

wouldn’t it be simpler to have the recorder on something around your neck? sorta like a camera strap attached to the h2 so you can turn it on and use it.

we carry lens’ in our bags and pockets, doesn’t mean we can’t whip them out. my rule of thumb is to be prepared going into situations, in both exposure and what gear i have on, so i think it’s no different with audio.

a simple camera strap would do the trick, i suppose. then click “record” when you’re ready to record.

For the record, I was trying this while walking in a religious group procession, and the best results I had were with the recorder stretched out by my left arm with the wind guard on it, and the camera 35mm leica in my right..not that bad, but I was hoping to shoot with the TLR and that wasn’t possible with this method/

re 1)I’ll have to do another battery test and clock it, but seems mine may not be abnormal. 3)will record in .wav and 4) I have garageband, so perhaps i will start there. Is Audacity hands down better for some reason?

thanks all!!!

The problem that I have with recorders like the H2 or Edirol R09 is that they are designed to be hand held while recording. The microphones are placed so that they point in a manner that putting the recorder in, say, a pocket produces an off stereo image or worse points the microphones in totally the wrong direction for good audio.

I’ve been waiting for a solid state replacement of my beloved Sony Hi-MD recorders but I haven’t found one so far. I use a stereo external mic for my ambient recording, usually an AudioTechnica AT822, and have it velcroed to my waist pouch so that it always points where I am facing. The soft pouch reduces handling noise so much that I rarely hear my motion in playback. I tend to turn the recorder on and let it go the whole time that I’m shooting. I can easily edit out the occational shutter noise and if great audio is happening I don’t shoot at all.

Yes, record in as high quality as you can muster or your audio will suffer. If you are recording to MP3 then don’t go any lower that 128kbs. I prefer to record uncompressed WAV. You audio editor is just like Photoshop in that you can get away with a cheap version but a full audio workstation suite like ProTools, Nuendo, Cubase, Audition or Digital Performer will make things eaiser, faster and will be much more flexable. I use Cubase SX3.

erica: do you have the small tripod stand for the h2?

I do, but so far I haven’t been in one place while recording..it’s all been on the move.

Jonathan, have you looked at the latest Sony Hi-MD recorder? The MZ-M200 I have been using for the past year can be used inside your pocket with an external stereo mic. I normally record my vocal coaching session with the recorder flat, but I can put it in my pocket and stil operate it because all the display and knobs are on one end. The external mic can be inserted straight into the recorder or can take a 42-inch-long extention cord. The stereo mic comes with a clip allowing it to be attached to your clothes. The rechargeable battery lasts long. I am still using the original one that came with the recorder. Lately I am taking advantage of its feature allowing charging while you play back from the computer.

“For the record, I was trying this while walking in a religious group procession, and the best results I had were with the recorder stretched out by my left arm with the wind guard on it, and the camera 35mm leica in my right..not that bad…”

Erica, That method is exactly what I do. It takes practice but it can be done. I use a shot gun mic (and wear headphones so I can accurately direct the mic). A perfect example of this is my MMA piece on my profile. Unfortunately, I did the conversion from Adobe Premiere wrong. So I’ll go back and repost it.

This discussion could be moot. We could always stop and do both activities seperately. I do that as well. We’re not always making pics during a story are we?

Tomoko I use my Hi-MD recorder in my pouch and it’s connected to my AT822 mic so that none of it gets in the way of my cameras. I have a remote for it so that I can control the recorder without touching the unit. The sound from my A822 is much clearer than the little clip on mic you are referring to.

Bill..I wore the headphones the whole time too, felt a bit like not so secret service..but I’d like a method like this that would work hand free for the TLR. Looking forward to seeing/hearing your piece.

What mic do you use, Bill?

Jonathan, it sounds like you are well-equipped. I had not thought about using a remote that came with my MD recorder. I need to think whether and how I should spring for a professional mic like the AT822. My Sony ECM-DS70P microphone looks like this except that as supplied by the Sony MZ-M200 recorder, the microphone comes with an extension cord and a clip on its stem. For its price, it is a pretty good microphone compared to what I used to use.

Erica, I haven’t tried that technique with a TLR. I’ll get that piece reposted soon.
There were times when I put the sound kit down and let it record ambient sound. Other times I’d hold the mic and aim it.
How much camera noise did you get with the Leica?

Mustafah,
to answer your question above. The unit was tightly secured by a stretch neoprene holder/armband so no jostling or bouncing of the unit occurred. It was positioned on my upper arm at about a 45 degree angle and it gave me very usable audio for the situation I was in. Let me stress that I don’t recommend this for conducting interviews etc.. But I was trying to capture loud ambient sound like crowds chanting on the street. And for that situation it worked for me. Was it studio clear and clean? No. but it was usable audio in a real world setting and it allowed me to capture the audio and take photographs simultaneously. Its wasn’t ideal but it was a workable situation.

I’ve been to B&H today and am experimenting with a similar set up for the H2. Tomorrow I’m going to field test what i came up with today for the Zoom and if it sounds any good I’ll post the outcome here

Hope this is helpful

I’ve started using mine, and I have some questions right off the bat..
>1) Seems like I am running out of battery power too fast. Fully charged rechargeables,
>with the battery >setting for the same 0n the H2, are running out in about 2 hours.
>Think my batteries are old or the H2 is >faulty or is this normal?

I’m getting about 2-3 hours out of a set of rechargeable AA’s. These are Duracell and deliver 2650mAh,
which is about as high as I’ve found them. Most rechargeable batteries only hit about 2000-2200mAh.
I take 4 – 6 batteries along for the day , but have never burned through more than 4. Usually 2 are enough.

2)Sure wish I could strap it to my body somehow for walking/shooting at the same time.
>Anyone come >up with a solution?

Still working on that one… I have a shock mount that is used in film production, but it’s far too big.
I’ve seen a few miniature setups like this for ENG video recording, but I may try to build something myself.

Of course the problem is that the H2 will pick up any sound the operator makes. Frei and Nachtwey got
away with it in War Photographer, but of course that was a documentary about a photographer… (duh).

I believe it would depend on what you are shooting. I don’t think anyone would tell you to keep your tape,
if you landed a news exclusive. ;-)

My homebrew solution will probably involved an external directional mic (mini shotgun) and some sort of
camera mounted boom pole. But I highly doubt I would be able to eliminate it from picking up anything
louder than a Rolleiflex, Leica or digital P&S.

Handling noise is a huge problem with the H2. I wrapped the screw in mic handle in foam and that helped a lot.
I’ve seen some home made shock mounts that suspend the H2 in between rubber bands.

Currently I simply take a few minutes out to gather sound, but I really hate having to stop shooting.
Often it’s just not an option, but regardless you always end up missing the sound of the action you are shooting.
Of course the ideal solution is a separate sound-man, but who can afford that?
Often I’ll go back for environmental sound or to pick up individual samples later on
that I can cut in later on, but the problem is that I keep running in to new pictures when
I go back, so it’s a vicious cycle…

3)For creating soundslides, is it over the top to record in .wav or is high quality MP3 enough?

Obviously you always want to record at the highest possible quality, because that’s your master.

If you are trying to save space I would suggest one of the lower uncompressed settings over compressed MP3.

24bit/96kHz is probably total overkill for what we do and I’m not even sure of the mics and circuitry in the H2
are good enough to really take advantage of such a high sampling rate. I usually record at 44/16bit or 48/16bit.
I suggest uncompressed, because it will probably hold up better for post processing. Think of an MP3 as a jpeg
and a WAV or aiff as RAW.

I normally record 2 tracks stereo, but will splurge on 4 tracks for a master environment recording. You can get
away with 1 track if someone is speaking directly to you, since that’s usually directional.

4)Now I have all these files..what is the easiest way to edit them into something usable for a slideshow?

I’m still looking for the perfect software combo for that.

Right now it’s SoundSlides or Final Cut and something like CUBASE or Logic Express. Look for Amadeus II
on the internets, it’s a basic sound editing package that’s really cheap. You can download it and try it first.

This fellow built the sort of shock mount we need for what we do. Put it on a short pole that raises it a foot off the camera
and you should be golden. But you have to add a directional shotgun microphone. Look at the pickup pattern or consult
someone in a good audio store and find one that is narrow and has a dead spot just beneath it.

http://www.slottweak.com/camcorder.htm

Feli

1. I recently bought several fresh sets of rechargeables, and go out with one set in the H2 and a spare set, maybe two spare pairs if I know I’ll be recording a lot. I’ve had to change batteries, but never changed twice, even five hours at a club strictly recording, no shooting. Can you refresh your batteries, or try a brand-new set?

2. I’m over juggling back and forth on a whim. I try to be prepared to switch if something warrants it, but I’m having better results staying/thinking in one mode at a time.

3. Yes, but … if you’re recording something you could sell to radio, or could contribute to a television/DVD, you might want the wav.

4. Love the Audacity.

Folks…Just as a thought here…I’ve Googled this gizmo and read that the stated recording time is only 2 hours.Don’t panic.

Gregory, that figure must be at some certain setting with a certain sized SD card. There’s plenty of options where you could record past two hours. I’m set for 44.1khz/16-bit wav, and with a 2GB card I can record 3hours, 9+ minutes.

Sorry I don’t know. Just relayed some tech info. Don’t I feel stupid. :( Ain’t high tech wonderful?

According to the manual for the Sony MZ-RH1 and MZ-M200, the battery life depends on how you record/play continuously on the MD recorders. It lists as short as 5 hours on a standard minidisc in LinearPCM to 10.5 hours in Hi-LP. The longest battery lif, obtained on a 1GB Hi-MD disc, is 19 hours in Hi-LP. I guess the Zoom H2 might have a similar variation. Also you get what you pay for. When I was using the Aiwa MD recorder, the expensive rechargeable Li battery became useless and I was forced to either record with an AC power or a battery case with 3 regular AA batteries. I resorted to the latter because of AC noise, but the battery life was short, about 2-3 hours.

heh, gregory, don’t digest the info. because that’s when you’ll get the gear gremlin bugging you about this and that recorder.